Topic: Blackwing!

[JohnnyMac]

Judging by how much CTS-Vs are going for right now, I don't think this car will depreciate much.

Depends on the CTS-V, I believe the previous gen was automatic only, so it'll likely depreciate a bit more than the manual cars.  I still can't believe this car is only $88K CAD.  That's BMW M3 money.

[dkaz]

Judging by how much CTS-Vs are going for right now, I don't think this car will depreciate much.

Depends on the CTS-V, I believe the previous gen was automatic only, so it'll likely depreciate a bit more than the manual cars.  I still can't believe this car is only $88K CAD.  That's BMW M3 money.

$88k?! That's really not bad at all. I saw $113k US for some reason. Ok, I priced mine out at $96k including destination. Not that I can afford it at all.

The first gen CTS-V manuals in Alberta are asking $21k, $22k, $25k, $49k (2012 coupe producing almost 700 WHP), and $52k (2012). The normal CTS manuals are around $10k.

[JohnnyMac]

Judging by how much CTS-Vs are going for right now, I don't think this car will depreciate much.

Depends on the CTS-V, I believe the previous gen was automatic only, so it'll likely depreciate a bit more than the manual cars.  I still can't believe this car is only $88K CAD.  That's BMW M3 money.

No, with options you are well over $100K.  Loaded up @ around $127K for the CT5.  It is more than the M3 but less than its direct competition, the M5.  The CT4 will be around $88K loaded up but if MSRP is any indication, you could get it for around the same price as a well equipped C43, M340 or S4.

Limited availability will keep depreciation at a low level to be sure.

MSRP of BMW M3 base model $84,300 with manual and 473hp.  Base model CT5-V Blackwing manual, $87,798 and over 660hp.  Both would be comparable for features, but the BMW obviously the higher quality materials.  Also the base model CT4-V Blackwing manual is $65,098 and 472hp.  Also it is comparable for features to the M3.

Of course you can "load up" any of these models to crazy heights, but the base model really has everything a person needs.  Who really needs the $10K plus carbon fiber aero, or nicer leather, or a sunroof, or ceramic brakes.  All you need is a reasonably luxury interior, a manual, RWD, and a rocking engine.

[dkaz]

There was a few k in there for safety features I feel should be standard in any new car at any price point.

[JohnnyMac]

There was a few k in there for safety features I feel should be standard in any new car at any price point.

I'll trade those safety features for a limited slip diff, auto rev match, and no lift shift manual any day of the week.  All things that come standard.  I think blindspot, forward collision warning, and rear cross traffic alert are standard, so those to me are more important that lane assists, lane departure, and radar cruise control.

[dkaz]

There was a few k in there for safety features I feel should be standard in any new car at any price point.

I'll trade those safety features for a limited slip diff, auto rev match, and no lift shift manual any day of the week.  All things that come standard.  I think blindspot, forward collision warning, and rear cross traffic alert are standard, so those to me are more important that lane assists, lane departure, and radar cruise control.

I guess. A car that can drive me on the way to the track would be nice. Or more going home. Or just rent a hotel I guess. Track days are exhausting. I wonder if automatic transmission is required for Cadillac's Super Cruise system?

[JohnnyMac]

There was a few k in there for safety features I feel should be standard in any new car at any price point.

I'll trade those safety features for a limited slip diff, auto rev match, and no lift shift manual any day of the week.  All things that come standard.  I think blindspot, forward collision warning, and rear cross traffic alert are standard, so those to me are more important that lane assists, lane departure, and radar cruise control.

I guess. A car that can drive me on the way to the track would be nice. Or more going home. Or just rent a hotel I guess. Track days are exhausting. I wonder if automatic transmission is required for Cadillac's Super Cruise system?

Like pretty much every manufacturer, in order to get the more advanced safety features, like radar cruise, lane keep assist, automatic emergency braking, Super Cruise, you are forced into getting the automatic.  There are exceptions of course, VW, Honda, and Toyota have them available on some manuals, like my GLI.

I don't imagine many of these caddies see a track consistently.

[JohnnyMac]

The reality is the CT4-V Blackwing has similar performance as the M3 but at the price of M340.

I watched a couple of videos of the 2022 M3 with AWD and it is hitting 0-60 in 2.9 and the quarter mile in 11.29, which is the same as the CTS-V Blackwing.  Notably, the CT4-V Blackwing's quarter mile of 12.2 seconds is the same as the M340.

The M3 performance, with AWD, and automatic, is always going to be faster than a RWD manual vehicle, both in 0-60 time and quarter mile.  The CT4-V Blackwing is a solid $20K less and more of a track car than a straight line car, so it'd be interesting to see how close it gets on a track.  Plus I haven't seen how fast the regular M3 RWD manual car is.  The CT5-V Blackwing won't have the best 0-60 time, because RWD and manual, but should be good in the quarter mile.  As far as the M340, again it's AWD and automatic, so it has quite a good lead on any RWD manual car.

[JohnnyMac]

It’s pretty impressive.  11.7 in the quarter mile for the RWD version and 1.03 g on the skid pad.

I just love how much of a sleeper it is.  If it had a quieter exhaust you'd never know it was a blackwing.  I think black is the colour to get on these cars.

[Gurgie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zuBKrfPqo

CT5-V Blackwing.  As tested price $121K Cdn.

Long gears - not great for street driving with a manual. 

I had long gears in my 951, it was a blast still on the street... I'm sure we could live with the CT5-V Blackwing 

[Great_Big_Abyss]

The Supercharged 6.2L V8 has, what, 659lb-ft of torque? 

I'm sure it will do just fine, despite the long gears.

[evil_twin]

126 km/h in 2nd.  You'll be fine.   

[JohnnyMac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zuBKrfPqo

CT5-V Blackwing.  As tested price $121K Cdn.

Long gears - not great for street driving with a manual. 

What are you talking about?  What 600+hp manual car has short gearing?  They do this for a number of reasons, one of which is for 0-60 times.  I don't see why anyone would ever choose to pay $10K plus for the carbon fiber bits (which this one has), the interior I think would be fine in base form (where as this one has the top optioned interior), and there's even carbon ceramic brakes (which this one didn't have, so put that on there and it's over $130K).

What I LOVE about that video is I don't think at any point did they mention the 10 speed automatic, they didn't show any clips of them driving it, didn't acknowledge that it's faster on the track, they just stuck with the manual. 

If I buy one of these I'll have black, with the dark rims, base interior, and maybe the data recorder (only because I love the idea of the valet mode to catch any mechanic/tech abusing it in their keep).  That would be pretty much $90K before fees and taxes, and would be pretty much perfection in my book.

That being said, part of me questions if I'm only buying the CT5 version because of the V8 sounds.  The CT4 version is pretty much just as fast and likely quite a bit more nimble, also more than $20K less.  But then again, how often will I ever be able to buy a manual supercharged V8.

[evil_twin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zuBKrfPqo

CT5-V Blackwing.  As tested price $121K Cdn.

Long gears - not great for street driving with a manual. 

What are you talking about?  What 600+hp manual car has short gearing?  They do this for a number of reasons, one of which is for 0-60 times.  I don't see why anyone would ever choose to pay $10K plus for the carbon fiber bits (which this one has), the interior I think would be fine in base form (where as this one has the top optioned interior), and there's even carbon ceramic brakes (which this one didn't have, so put that on there and it's over $130K).

What I LOVE about that video is I don't think at any point did they mention the 10 speed automatic, they didn't show any clips of them driving it, didn't acknowledge that it's faster on the track, they just stuck with the manual. 

If I buy one of these I'll have black, with the dark rims, base interior, and maybe the data recorder (only because I love the idea of the valet mode to catch any mechanic/tech abusing it in their keep).  That would be pretty much $90K before fees and taxes, and would be pretty much perfection in my book.

That being said, part of me questions if I'm only buying the CT5 version because of the V8 sounds.  The CT4 version is pretty much just as fast and likely quite a bit more nimble, also more than $20K less.  But then again, how often will I ever be able to buy a manual supercharged V8.

I'd take a long look at those interiors.  The base ones are truly base and the same as all run of the mill CT5's.   Not very exciting seating.  I think you'd at least want the "mid-range" sport seats that cost $3k.    The top drawer carbon fiber buckets are $7k.

I agree you with on skipping the carbon packages and brakes unless you're really a big track person.

[OliverD]

My build squeaked in just under six figures at $99,873.

Not a bad price for the performance. Couldn't say no to the upgraded seats and bronze wheels.

[JohnnyMac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zuBKrfPqo

CT5-V Blackwing.  As tested price $121K Cdn.

Long gears - not great for street driving with a manual. 

What are you talking about?  What 600+hp manual car has short gearing?  They do this for a number of reasons, one of which is for 0-60 times.  I don't see why anyone would ever choose to pay $10K plus for the carbon fiber bits (which this one has), the interior I think would be fine in base form (where as this one has the top optioned interior), and there's even carbon ceramic brakes (which this one didn't have, so put that on there and it's over $130K).

What I LOVE about that video is I don't think at any point did they mention the 10 speed automatic, they didn't show any clips of them driving it, didn't acknowledge that it's faster on the track, they just stuck with the manual. 

If I buy one of these I'll have black, with the dark rims, base interior, and maybe the data recorder (only because I love the idea of the valet mode to catch any mechanic/tech abusing it in their keep).  That would be pretty much $90K before fees and taxes, and would be pretty much perfection in my book.

That being said, part of me questions if I'm only buying the CT5 version because of the V8 sounds.  The CT4 version is pretty much just as fast and likely quite a bit more nimble, also more than $20K less.  But then again, how often will I ever be able to buy a manual supercharged V8.

I'd take a long look at those interiors.  The base ones are truly base and the same as all run of the mill CT5's.   Not very exciting seating.  I think you'd at least want the "mid-range" sport seats that cost $3k.    The top drawer carbon fiber buckets are $7k.

I agree you with on skipping the carbon packages and brakes unless you're really a big track person.

I am coming from a VW GLI and a Golf R before that, I'm pretty sure the base interior in both will be as good or better than what I am used to.  On the list of things that are important to me the quality of materials is pretty low.  But I do get that others have different expectations at this price point.  As stated in the video, this is American Luxury, not European Luxury, it will never be as good as the Germans.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I was going to point out that your Mustang was probably geared comparably, and you confirmed it.  Plus the CT5-V has, what, close to double the torque down low?

Anyway, you're right about a Miata being more fun in the city.  Slow-car fast, and all that. 

[JohnnyMac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zuBKrfPqo

CT5-V Blackwing.  As tested price $121K Cdn.

Long gears - not great for street driving with a manual. 

What are you talking about?  What 600+hp manual car has short gearing?  They do this for a number of reasons, one of which is for 0-60 times.  I don't see why anyone would ever choose to pay $10K plus for the carbon fiber bits (which this one has), the interior I think would be fine in base form (where as this one has the top optioned interior), and there's even carbon ceramic brakes (which this one didn't have, so put that on there and it's over $130K).

What I LOVE about that video is I don't think at any point did they mention the 10 speed automatic, they didn't show any clips of them driving it, didn't acknowledge that it's faster on the track, they just stuck with the manual. 

If I buy one of these I'll have black, with the dark rims, base interior, and maybe the data recorder (only because I love the idea of the valet mode to catch any mechanic/tech abusing it in their keep).  That would be pretty much $90K before fees and taxes, and would be pretty much perfection in my book.

That being said, part of me questions if I'm only buying the CT5 version because of the V8 sounds.  The CT4 version is pretty much just as fast and likely quite a bit more nimble, also more than $20K less.  But then again, how often will I ever be able to buy a manual supercharged V8.

Now, now, now.  Don't cherry pick, Grasshopper.

I said "not great for street driving."  When I drive a manual, the fun is shifting up in the power band.  The problem with these types of cars with a manual is that you can't without getting into some issue with the local constabulary.  FWIW, my Bullitt topped out at 137 km/h in second and 189 in third.  Around town I am convinced a Miata is more fun to drive.

You defend these cars like your life depended on it.  So did you put an order in?

 

Listen, I wasn't saying that you were wrong about not being able to row through a bunch of gears at redline, but you are basically complaining about every manual vehicle with more than 300hp.  So why single this one out?  That's what I'm not understanding.  Unless you do that with every vehicle and I just haven't noticed, if that's the case carry on.

My plan is to buy in summer of 2024, right now I'm patiently waiting on pricing for the Lotus Emira, and if that is too much my backup will be a manual Blackwing.  Thinking about how to choose between CT4 or CT5, maybe I put a deposit on both, and whichever comes in first I'll go with that.  You might think this is all talk and I won't pull the trigger and I don't know how to convince anyone, but wait and see is the only way to be sure.

[tortoise]

I'm with you on the tall gearing.  It would be annoying on the street.

[evil_twin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zuBKrfPqo

CT5-V Blackwing.  As tested price $121K Cdn.

Long gears - not great for street driving with a manual. 

What are you talking about?  What 600+hp manual car has short gearing?  They do this for a number of reasons, one of which is for 0-60 times.  I don't see why anyone would ever choose to pay $10K plus for the carbon fiber bits (which this one has), the interior I think would be fine in base form (where as this one has the top optioned interior), and there's even carbon ceramic brakes (which this one didn't have, so put that on there and it's over $130K).

What I LOVE about that video is I don't think at any point did they mention the 10 speed automatic, they didn't show any clips of them driving it, didn't acknowledge that it's faster on the track, they just stuck with the manual. 

If I buy one of these I'll have black, with the dark rims, base interior, and maybe the data recorder (only because I love the idea of the valet mode to catch any mechanic/tech abusing it in their keep).  That would be pretty much $90K before fees and taxes, and would be pretty much perfection in my book.

That being said, part of me questions if I'm only buying the CT5 version because of the V8 sounds.  The CT4 version is pretty much just as fast and likely quite a bit more nimble, also more than $20K less.  But then again, how often will I ever be able to buy a manual supercharged V8.

I'd take a long look at those interiors.  The base ones are truly base and the same as all run of the mill CT5's.   Not very exciting seating.  I think you'd at least want the "mid-range" sport seats that cost $3k.    The top drawer carbon fiber buckets are $7k.

I agree you with on skipping the carbon packages and brakes unless you're really a big track person.

I am coming from a VW GLI and a Golf R before that, I'm pretty sure the base interior in both will be as good or better than what I am used to.  On the list of things that are important to me the quality of materials is pretty low.  But I do get that others have different expectations at this price point.  As stated in the video, this is American Luxury, not European Luxury, it will never be as good as the Germans.

I’m not even talking luxury, though.   The base seats are typical “I’m a fat guy who likes to be comfy in my Cadillac” seats.   I’d want some sportier buckets in a blackwing.