Topic: New/nearly new small AWD Crossovers/SUVs with manual transmissions. Options?

[BritWRX]

My brother-in-law is finally looking to change his 200k+ 2007 Toyota Yaris commuter and has asked me for advice.  He is single, so doesn't want a massive vehicle but he does give another 3/4 people a ride to work so wants a bit more space.  We're in rural Manitoba and some of his commute is on gravel, so he would prefer higher ground clearance and AWD.  He also does 80+km per day, so fuel consumption is also a consideration...oh, and just to be awkward, he hates automatics and wants a manual transmission!

He quite likes the look of the Subaru XV Crosstrek and he asked me about them, as he remembered that I used to own a "Blobeye" WRX.  They look OK (isn't it basically a jacked up Impreza hatch?) but I remember taking my WRX in for service at the Subaru dealer and getting a previous-gen 2010 Impreza 2.0 (non-turbo) and although it was a nice car, it felt a bit gutless and wasn't that great on gas.

I suggested a Forester, as they have a bit more power and I loved the 2007 Forester Turbo that I had a go in but that was basically a WRX underneath, whereas I'm not sure whether the new one isn't just another Toyota RAV4/Honda CRV clone.  Personally, I might be tempted by the Turbo for the power despite the only transmission option being a CVT on the 2014- Forester.  We have a CVT on our 2014 Corolla S and it's OK but a bit weird i.e. sometimes it acts like a normal auto and sometimes like a CVT (like the clutch is slipping)!  The Honda Civic and Nissan Juke CVTs were horrid though and ruined the cars in my opinion (I like both cars with manual transmissions).

I like Subarus despite their faults (below average fuel economy, cheap-feeling interiors, expensive parts) because even the lesser powered ones feel like they have real engineering integrity and the AWD system is the best there is!  Even my WRX was a lot more capable off pavement and in deep snow than it had any right to be!  They are also doing 0.9% financing/leasing on new XV/Forester at the moment, which seems a pretty good deal.  Is a Subaru the only option though?

I looked up others such as the VW Tiguan, Mazda CX5 and Mitsubishi RVR that I thought might be available with manual transmissions and they are but only with front-wheel drive!

The only other vehicle that I can think of is a Jeep Wrangler!  He would need the Unlimited version and they are really cool but quite expensive (he wants fully-loaded, leather seats etc) and I think although I could probably put up with one for its strengths, he would find it a bit too thirsty and a bit too much of a compromise on the highway.

Any thoughts on the Subaru XV/Forester/Jeep Wrangler as potential options and are there any vehicles that I overlooked (don't know a lot about these types of vehicle)?  He wants new or nearly new i.e. 2014 or newer.   

[JohnnyMac]

There really aren't many options out there for AWD and manual.  Obviously the XV, Forester, and don't forget about the excellent Outback as well.  You can option a Wrangler with a manual and 4X4, I believe you can also get their Compass and Patriot with AWD and manual (but I'm not 100% sure on that), and their new Jeep Renegade can be had with manual and AWD.  Only other vehicle I can think of is the Nissan Xterra SUV, which if you select the Pro-4X comes with a manual.

The only vehicles that I think would really suit your brother would be the Subaru's.  I'd probably get him to try the regular Imprezza too as it's a very good vehicle and will be better on fuel than all others listed, plus he can get it a bit cheaper.  Doesn't sound like power is a huge issue as he's coming form a Yaris, so any of these vehicles should feel adequately powered.

Personally I like the Outback the best as it's the most comfortable, offers the most space, has the best interior, and should still be fairly fuel efficient.

[OliverD]

If he is interested in used vehicles he could consider the Suzuki Grand Vitara as well.

Pickings are definitely slim.

[JohnnyMac]

If he is interested in used vehicles he could consider the Suzuki Grand Vitara as well.

Pickings are definitely slim.

Ewwww, no Suzuki Grand Vitara.  Those things were poo when they came out, as a used buy their even worse.

[SaskSpecV]

Mini Countryman is also available with stick and AWD.

[Scaerio]

If he is interested in used vehicles he could consider the Suzuki Grand Vitara as well.

Pickings are definitely slim.

Ewwww, no Suzuki Grand Vitara.  Those things were poo when they came out, as a used buy their even worse.

Really? A number of online owner reviews I've read seem to indicate that owners appreciate its ruggedness.  Remember this is a real 4x4 (truck-like, body on frame) and not a car-based SUV. 

[OliverD]

If he is interested in used vehicles he could consider the Suzuki Grand Vitara as well.

Pickings are definitely slim.

Ewwww, no Suzuki Grand Vitara.  Those things were poo when they came out, as a used buy their even worse.

I've only heard good things about their ruggedness and reliability.

[BritWRX]

Thanks for all the replies.  I like the new Outback and that would probably be my Subaru of choice but I have two kids and need the extra space, he would probably find it a bit too wagonny!  The engines in the Subaru range seem to be the weak point.  Not particularly powerful or economical.  Shame, because their turbocharged engines are awesome!  The Boxer configuration gives a low centre of gravity and good handling and ride though.

I didn't realise that the Jeep Renegade was available with manual and 4x4.  I thought just the 9-speed auto but that looks like a good option.  Cheaper than I was expecting too.

I also wasn't aware of the Xterra (although the 4.0 V6 might be a bit juicy for him) or the MINI Countryman.

I used to sell Suzukis.  The last gen Grand Vitaras weren't all that bad.  A little bit dated now though. 

[JohnnyMac]

Sure the Subaru 4's aren't all that powerful but coming from a Yaris he shouldn't be unhappy with the power in any of these.  The fuel economy in the new Subaru's has gotten much better than the older ones.  Mind you anything he buys will be less fuel efficient than the Yaris.

I figured one of the main reasons your brother chose the Yaris was because it was reliability.  That's why I figure the Subaru's would be the best choice.  My wife see's the Outback as a wagon also but in reality it's just as much SUV as our current Santa Fe.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I had a CrossTrek and it was pretty good on gas. It would dip into the 6.5L/100km range on the highway, and somewhere around 8-9 around town depending on season.

It wasn't a fireball, but acceleration would be better than in his Yaris.

[SaskSpecV]

It wasn't a fireball, but acceleration would be better than in his Yaris.

Yep, it's all relative!

The Forester MT isn't a rocket by any stretch, but it's not a slug either. Motor Trend had a 0-60 of 7.5 seconds and 1/4 mile in 15.8 - nothing to write home about, but hardly slow.  It really helps that the curb weight is relatively light (3300 - 3400 lb).  But the turbo would definitely have a lot more kick!
http://www.trucktrend.com/truck-reviews/1307-2014-subaru-forester-premium-manual-first-test/

According to the few reports on the Outback forums, the 2.5i struggles a bit more in that application - an extra 200+ lbs will do that.

As for fuel economy, nothing is going to come close to the Yaris.  My Forester is in the 7.5 - 8.5 L / 100 km range on the highway, depending on speed (100 - 125 kph).  About 9 - 11 L /100 km in town, depending on the route.

[Noto]

As for fuel economy, nothing is going to come close to the Yaris.  My Forester is in the 7.5 - 8.5 L / 100 km range on the highway, depending on speed (100 - 125 kph).  About 9 - 11 L /100 km in town, depending on the route.

What Yarises did ya'll drive?  It was easily the WORST in terms of fuel economy when I picked it up at the rental lots in Windsor.

Fiesta could do the drive between 4.8L/100km and 5.6L/100km depending on the weather.  Yaris was consistently 7.5L/100km+!!!  Rio/Accent did it in about 6.5L/100km.  Mazda2 was also abysmal.  In the city, yeah, the Yaris would probably be a bit better than a Crosstrek.  On the highway?  I'd say it's a wash...if not the Crosstrek doing better.

All things considered, fuel economy should not even be a consideration between the two.  I did not find the Yaris to be a fuel economy leader by any stretch, and nor did Autos.ca:
http://www.autos.ca/car-comparisons/comparison-test-subcompact-cars/?all=1

Despite motivating the lightest curb weight, Toyota’s 1.5L four-cylinder ekes out only 106 horsepower and 103 lb-ft of torque – both lowest in this test – and protests loudly in doing so while delivering only mid-pack fuel efficiency.

...then again, I'm calling snow shenanigans on that test

[Blueprint]

Subarus, Jeep Compass / Patriot (they do offer awd + stick), Jeep Renegade + Fiat 500X platform mate, Wrangler, Countryman, Paceman, XTerra if he can find one...and that's about it for awd + manual.

Fwd with stick adds a few options: HR-V, CX-3, Sportage, "old" Tucson, Tiguan, RVR, Soul.

[BritWRX]

Thanks for all the replies.  Those figures on the XV are pretty impressive, especially for something with permanent AWD.  They have obviously made great improvements.  I usually get 8-9 L/100km out of my 2013 Civic (1.8 manual) and 5.5-6 L/100km highway.

I appreciate that none of the options will be as good as his Yaris on gas but obviously he wants better than truck fuel economy.  He didn't really "choose" the Yaris.  My mother-in-law bought a new Venza and passed the Yaris on to me when I first moved here, as i didn't have a vehicle.  I ran it for 6 months and then passed it on to him, as I found a car that I wanted to buy and he had just scrapped his old Intrepid.  To be fair, it was fairly economical and reliable but I hated driving it (although I did get my first speeding ticket in 16 years in it)!  I don't know if Toyota do particularly lead the way in terms of gas mileage though.  Our 2014 Corolla CVT is OK on gas but the main reasons we bought it were value, space for a compact car and I knew it would just work flawlessly.

I didn't realise the Forester was so light!  Those acceleration figures (0-60 in 7.5s) sound very good for a largeish car with only 170hp.  Is that right or was that 0-60km/h?!

The new Outback looks fantastic to me.  Shame the 2.5 sounds a bit sluggish.  Is the 3.6 the engine to have then?

I think that I would suggest that he look at/try an XV, Forester and a Jeep Renegade.  Most of the concerns that I have read about the Renegade focus on the 9-speed automatic, so there shouldn't be too many issues with the manual?  Looks cool too and much more modern than the Compass/Patriot.