Topic: Golf R negotiation

[JohnnyMac]

Simply, I would test everything within +-5K of the price of the Golf R. At worst you'll find something better and at best you'll have piece peace of mind.

Any idea on how many vehicles are in and under that price.  It's a lot, and remember that I put my wife through all these test drives.  I appreciate her insight and she will also be driving it.

[JohnnyMac]

What about Focus ST?

Which dealership did you go to for the bad treatment for Mustang? Riverview, or Wood Motors? I had a pretty good experience with both, though I ended up buying from Riverview.

How important is having a dealership locally? That narrows your choices here in Fredericton

Would have driven a Focus ST this past summer.  In fact there was one at Wood Motors all summer.  But for some stupid a$$ reason they aren't open on Saturdays over the summer.  I only test drive on Saturdays as both me and my wife work during the week and test driving vehicles in the evening is a major pain in the butt.  Fredericton is primarily a Government town and we all work during the week, so many of us only have spare time to test drive on the weekends.  You'd think the local Ford dealers would realize this but again, you can't fix stupid.

Both Riverview and Wood Motors were a$$ clowns.  I'm a serious buyer but they refused to let me test drive the Mustang without a caperone and only around the block.  I drove it around the block with the guy in the passanger seat and as you can imagine it didn't give me enough info in the test drive to sway me to buy one.  In fact, any time I've ever had a salesperson join us on a test drive it's resulted in us not liking the vehicle.

Simply, I won't deal with stupid people and that includes buying a vehicle.  It's just sad that both dealers screwed the whole brand for me.  I might give them another shot in the future but that will be another 5-6 years from now.

[JohnnyMac]

Here's what I've drove so far in this category and have crossed off my list VW GTI, Audi A3, BMW 228i, Ford Mustang GT (don't get me started on why I crossed that off the list), Caddy ATS, Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0L, Subaru WRX & BRZ, Mercedes CLA, Ford Fiesta ST (didn't drive it because seats are too narrow in the shoulders), and Mazda 3 GT manual.

That's a pretty exhaustive list.  There really isn't much left to look at.

IMO, the Golf R competes in a field of one.  If it is exactly what you are looking for there isn't anything else out there that will fit the bill.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  The Subaru WRX was close but interior was just not up to par and can't get over that.  In fact if it was my wife's car, we'd be buying a WRX.  But apparently she loves the boy racer looks and the reliability of the WRX.  I only plan on keeping this vehicle for 5 years anyway, so reliability isn't a huge concern.

I'm thinking maybe the Camaro might be redone by next summer but I'm not hopeful for that.  Ford and Dodge decided to release their muscle cars in the fall, so I can see Chevy making the same mistake. 

I'm still hopeful everything will work out with the Golf R, even if I have to go to another local to purchase it.  But it would be nice to have a back up plan, and I enjoy test driving, so a few more to add to the list for the new year would be welcomed.

[Noto]

I know I'm late, but here's my thoughts:

I wouldn't have thought so (seems to defeat the point of a deposit!), but I've heard others claim you could walk away from the vehicle and still keep your deposit.

At law, a deposit is considered a part-payment and is therefore fully refundable.

"i'll pay ___ with no additional fees and snow tires included. i'm willing to sign and put a deposit down now if that is accepted".

^^ this.  To put down a deposit is to say "I am serious about purchasing A car from you."  It does not specify THE car.  On that basis, there is no contract for purchase (this is again the reason why your deposit is refundable).  However, as part of your deposit, you can specify that:
a) Deposit is fully refundable without any cost to you (i.e. full, no admin fees, etc. apply)
b) Deposit is on the basis of the purchase price being "no more than $_____, but subject to additional accessories AGREED UPON BY THE BUYER, and negotiations between buyer and dealer."  The words 'no more than' will be important (it can be MSRP).
c) the car must be delivered no later than _____[date].

If the dealership isn't willing to abide by any of your terms, walk.

[tooscoops]

well, just to be the dick that points this out... i count 10 dealers that let you drive a special/rare car and won't be seeing a penny... so from a dealer perspective, i can see why some might be hesitant to let a performance car go without knowing it's a done deal if the car performs as it should.

the cars you are looking at are a privilege to drive... and that's if you own it. many potential customers forget that they aren't doing the dealer a favour by driving their car (or even buying)... the dealer is doing them a favour/giving them an opportunity and not all dealers will feel that the potential payout is worth it.

as i said.. just to be that guy!.. heh...

guy came in and wanted to take an srt jeep home... as we discussed price, we got to a point where he wasn't going to "let" us make a penny... so i said no, you can't take it out, especially if we can't agree on a price... he acted like i kicked his puppy and that i should go to jail. wanted to talk to the management and everything.

just, as always, giving another side of things!

[JohnnyMac]

I know I'm late, but here's my thoughts:

I wouldn't have thought so (seems to defeat the point of a deposit!), but I've heard others claim you could walk away from the vehicle and still keep your deposit.

At law, a deposit is considered a part-payment and is therefore fully refundable.

"i'll pay ___ with no additional fees and snow tires included. i'm willing to sign and put a deposit down now if that is accepted".

^^ this.  To put down a deposit is to say "I am serious about purchasing A car from you."  It does not specify THE car.  On that basis, there is no contract for purchase (this is again the reason why your deposit is refundable).  However, as part of your deposit, you can specify that:
a) Deposit is fully refundable without any cost to you (i.e. full, no admin fees, etc. apply)
b) Deposit is on the basis of the purchase price being "no more than $_____, but subject to additional accessories AGREED UPON BY THE BUYER, and negotiations between buyer and dealer."  The words 'no more than' will be important (it can be MSRP).
c) the car must be delivered no later than _____[date].

If the dealership isn't willing to abide by any of your terms, walk.

All the dealers I called said they wouldn't talk numbers until they were sure they could get one, and when the numbers for Canada get released.  I'm not one of those people who feel obligated to buy the vehicle even with a $500 deposit and I told the dealer that by no means does this insure a sale.  If this is what I have to do in order to talk numbers it's not a big deal, $500 sitting at the bank of VW for a few months is okay, as long as I hold the right to take it out whenever I damn well please and with no penalties.  I got them to send those terms of the deposit in a email so I have it in writing.

[Noto]

All the dealers I called said they wouldn't talk numbers until they were sure they could get one, and when the numbers for Canada get released.  I'm not one of those people who feel obligated to buy the vehicle even with a $500 deposit and I told the dealer that by no means does this insure a sale.  If this is what I have to do in order to talk numbers it's not a big deal, $500 sitting at the bank of VW for a few months is okay, as long as I hold the right to take it out whenever I damn well please and with no penalties.  I got them to send those terms of the deposit in a email so I have it in writing.

You can say "no more than MSRP."  Not specific #s, but at least guarantees that you won't be paying to wipe the dealer's as$.

And it's a moot point any way, good job on the deposit and getting it in writing.

[JohnnyMac]

well, just to be the dick that points this out... i count 10 dealers that let you drive a special/rare car and won't be seeing a penny... so from a dealer perspective, i can see why some might be hesitant to let a performance car go without knowing it's a done deal if the car performs as it should.

the cars you are looking at are a privilege to drive... and that's if you own it. many potential customers forget that they aren't doing the dealer a favour by driving their car (or even buying)... the dealer is doing them a favour/giving them an opportunity and not all dealers will feel that the potential payout is worth it.

as i said.. just to be that guy!.. heh...

guy came in and wanted to take an srt jeep home... as we discussed price, we got to a point where he wasn't going to "let" us make a penny... so i said no, you can't take it out, especially if we can't agree on a price... he acted like i kicked his puppy and that i should go to jail. wanted to talk to the management and everything.

just, as always, giving another side of things!

We've had this discussion before I think tooscoops.  You have the prospective of you want the car basically sold prior to test drive, I get that, you want to make money for yourself and the dealer.  But I won't buy something until I test drive it properly.

Those 10 other dealers/sales persons, were well informed that I was cross shopping this vehicle with a lot of others and that I would be making my decision over a few months.  I didn't talk numbers with any of them as no point if I don't like the vehicle.  If they felt like I was being unfair or cheated, they could simply not let me take it out.  That would be cool with me, just don't expect my business and fully expect me to tell others about how much of a a$$ hat you are.

I understand that dealers have to make money on vehicle sales.  It's a business and not a charity afterall.  I feel like the best deals are the ones where both parties come out a bit unhappy.  It shouldn't be all one sided.  That being said I don't have much respect for dealers nowadays as they try every trick in the book to screw the uninformed customer out of their hard earned dollars and then try and screw them again with stuff like hydorgen in the tires, window etching, extra insurance, etc.

I've come across some excellent sales people in my journey this summer but the thing is I don't need a sales person at all.  I'm well informed and the vehicle speaks for itself.  If anything the sales person just gets in the way.  There isn't much that a sales person could ever say to sway me to buy their vehicle over the other, the product is the end all and be all for me.

Just so you know, I totally get why you didn't allow that customer to drive the Jeep SRT.  With an attitude like that (hell bent on dealer not making a dollar) I wouldn't have wasted my time on them either.  But that customers attitude and mine are completely different.

[tooscoops]

That would be cool with me, just don't expect my business and fully expect me to tell others about how much of a a$$ hat you are.

so is it really cool with you? haha! i don't think the first half of that sentence and the second half agree with each other.

i do get it, and someone coming in knowing that we are a business and that i AM going to make a profit (while treating you fairly and like a human being!), will most likely be going for a spin (with or without me... a few factors play there)

and also... this is only on specific cars... you want to take out a hemi charger, 200s or whatever... here are the keys, have fun.

good luck with the R... hopefully it ends up being all that you want when it does show up!

[JohnnyMac]

That would be cool with me, just don't expect my business and fully expect me to tell others about how much of a a$$ hat you are.

so is it really cool with you? haha! i don't think the first half of that sentence and the second half agree with each other.

i do get it, and someone coming in knowing that we are a business and that i AM going to make a profit (while treating you fairly and like a human being!), will most likely be going for a spin (with or without me... a few factors play there)

and also... this is only on specific cars... you want to take out a hemi charger, 200s or whatever... here are the keys, have fun.

good luck with the R... hopefully it ends up being all that you want when it does show up!

Yeah maybe I should have modified the first part of that sentence.  The key to any relationship is reasonable expectations.  I don't expect to be able to walk into a Porsche dealership and take out a 911 for sh1ts and giggles.  But a Mustang GT seems like something a person like myself should be able to take out for a longer distance than around a city block, and hopefully without a sales person in the car.  It's really too bad because both me and my wife thought the Mustang had a very good chance of winning our business, hate to see a product get jipped by poor dealerships.

I too hope the Golf R is the holy grail I seek.  But like most people I'll inevitably have buyers remorse and no vehicle is perfect (at least in my price range).

[Noto]

When I test drive, I follow the route dictated...but if it's too short, I tell the salesperson that I'm going to take it out for something a bit extended.

On occasion, I request a highway jaunt, too.

I often request once already in the car so that they have a more difficult time saying no.  It's not an unreasonable request, so long as the drive time isn't extended to like an hour or more.

That's why I love the Subaru dealership in Ithaca...the test loop there is huge, something like 14 miles, IIRC.

[OliverD]

So I put my $500 deposit down on a Golf R yesterday as all the dealers I called said they required it prior to even knowing if they'd get one.  I made sure it was refundable and the salesperson understands that we'll be discussing numbers when they get released for Canada in the new year.  I also told them that I'll only buy a Golf R with a manual so I might be waiting awhile.

I might have ran into you there, I may have put down a deposit yesterday myself. Not for an R though. 

[JohnnyMac]

So I put my $500 deposit down on a Golf R yesterday as all the dealers I called said they required it prior to even knowing if they'd get one.  I made sure it was refundable and the salesperson understands that we'll be discussing numbers when they get released for Canada in the new year.  I also told them that I'll only buy a Golf R with a manual so I might be waiting awhile.

I might have ran into you there, I may have put down a deposit yesterday myself. Not for an R though. 

I was there at around 12:45pm.  There were a couple of people standing there, so you might have witnessed it.  The sales person was Shelby, who assisted me.  I don't think she mentioned that I was putting a deposit down on a R, just that it was a deposit.  So no one really took notice.

[OliverD]

So I put my $500 deposit down on a Golf R yesterday as all the dealers I called said they required it prior to even knowing if they'd get one.  I made sure it was refundable and the salesperson understands that we'll be discussing numbers when they get released for Canada in the new year.  I also told them that I'll only buy a Golf R with a manual so I might be waiting awhile.

I might have ran into you there, I may have put down a deposit yesterday myself. Not for an R though. 

I was there at around 12:45pm.  There were a couple of people standing there, so you might have witnessed it.  The sales person was Shelby, who assisted me.  I don't think she mentioned that I was putting a deposit down on a R, just that it was a deposit.  So no one really took notice.

I was there later in the afternoon, but I've dealt with Shelby a few times now. Bought my Mini Cooper from her and helped my dad buy his TDI Wolfsburg Edition wagon from her.

[JohnnyMac]

So I put my $500 deposit down on a Golf R yesterday as all the dealers I called said they required it prior to even knowing if they'd get one.  I made sure it was refundable and the salesperson understands that we'll be discussing numbers when they get released for Canada in the new year.  I also told them that I'll only buy a Golf R with a manual so I might be waiting awhile.

I might have ran into you there, I may have put down a deposit yesterday myself. Not for an R though. 

I was there at around 12:45pm.  There were a couple of people standing there, so you might have witnessed it.  The sales person was Shelby, who assisted me.  I don't think she mentioned that I was putting a deposit down on a R, just that it was a deposit.  So no one really took notice.

I was there later in the afternoon, but I've dealt with Shelby a few times now. Bought my Mini Cooper from her and helped my dad buy his TDI Wolfsburg Edition wagon from her.

Well if you bought the Mini this past summer I was probably there when you picked it up.  I remember she had it set aside for a customer and said that she had sold it.  I think that was back in June or maybe May.  She told me she got to drive it a couple of times and loved it.  Shelby's nice enough but not really useful for someone like myself, she doesn't really know much about her own products and not much at all about the competitors.  She definitely learned a few things from dealing with me this past summer.  I frequently told her all about the other cars I was test driving and giving her details about what is good and bad about the VW's we drove.

[OliverD]

Yeah, I think it was early June that we picked up the Mini.

I like her though, mainly because she isn't pushy or tries to sell you something you're not interested in. When my dad was shopping he told her he wanted the Wolfsburg Edition wagon in red and she didn't try to sell him on the Highlines they had in stock – just located the car he wanted and made it happen.

I honestly don't care too much about how much the salesperson knows about the product, I'm informed and as long as they know that and don't BS me I'm happy. Nothing worse than salespeople who just make stuff up on the spot.

[JohnnyMac]

Yeah, I think it was early June that we picked up the Mini.

I like her though, mainly because she isn't pushy or tries to sell you something you're not interested in. When my dad was shopping he told her he wanted the Wolfsburg Edition wagon in red and she didn't try to sell him on the Highlines they had in stock – just located the car he wanted and made it happen.

I honestly don't care too much about how much the salesperson knows about the product, I'm informed and as long as they know that and don't BS me I'm happy. Nothing worse than salespeople who just make stuff up on the spot.

I do like to have a good chit chat with another car person though, and I'm always impressed when a sale person can give me facts about the car I'm looking at that I didn't know prior to getting there.  She was a bit pushy with me in wanting my damn deposit, I think I got 5 emails asking if I was coming in to put a deposit down.

When sales people make stuff up on the spot I always call them out on it.  My wife just stands there awkwardly as I correct a sale person.  It happened when the Caddy guy told me that they were the only ones that gave free service (oil changes, etc) for the first 4 years.  I quickly informed him that others do this as well, and started to list them.  He quickly said "guess I can't use that line anymore". 

[EV-Light]

have you considered this:

[JohnnyMac]

have you considered this:

I forgot to list Mini Cooper.  I tried the new one with the 3 cylinder engine and I have to say it was probably the most surprising vehicle we drove.  It had very decent power, nice interior, and decent space.  Only problem with the Mini is service, closest dealer is 2 hours away, and Mini reliability is an issue.  Plus they get expensive quick once you start adding things you want.  Oh and it's FWD.  The Countryman is a CUV, and we have one of those already. 

[Northernridge]

While I'd consider the Golf R myself, I just can't get my head around negotiating for, or committing to something in advance of its release.

In this era of any-flavour-you-want consumerism I resent the concept of product scarcity.