Author Topic: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop  (Read 37952 times)

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Not sure where to put this, so I figured I'd post it here.

The last couple of trips to the dealer haven't gone the best for me.  I got new brakes on my Rio5 a couple of years ago (maybe $1100?).  The original brakes lasted just over 5 years.  I paid a bit extra to have the upgraded rotors (coated, etc) and premium pads, etc.  18 months later, they were shot and I needed new brakes again (all 4 pads and rotors).  I told the dealership this was unacceptable that the factory brakes lasted over 5 years and the "premium" ones I paid extra for only lasted about 18 months.  They told me they only had a 1 year warranty and there was nothing they would do.  I went back and forth with the service advisor, service manager and eventually general manager.  After much back and forth, they were willing to replace my brakes with factory replacements for "cost" (it cost me just under $600).  Most of my experiences have been relatively positive, so I just filed that under "keep my eye open" for any issues going forward.

A couple of weeks ago, I noticed a piece of plastic (wind deflector?) mounted under the bumper had come loose, and was dragging on the ground.  I had an appointment coming up later in the week for the oil change/tire swap at the dealer (get it done every spring/fall).  I called the dealership and asked if I could swing by to get it fixed so it wouldn't be destroyed by the time my appointment came up.  They said no problem, bring it by.  I started on my way, but after going around the block, I figured it would be ruined by the time I got there.  Instead, I went to an Indie shop around the corner that many people have praised.  The shop was busy (it was a Saturday), but the guy came out to have a quick peak.  He got down on his knees, grabbed the trim piece, and tucked it back into place. I thanked him for his time and asked how much I owed him, he said don't worry about it.

Fast forward a few days, I brought the Sorento in to the dealer for the oil change/tire swap, and had them check the trim piece to be sure it was put back into place ok.  Everything seems to go well and I get a call a few hours later saying I need new brakes all the way around.  The car is about 3 years old and has maybe 50k kms on it. I suppose that's possible, but I didn't notice/feel any issues with the brakes (they seem to be fine, but whatever).  They give me a price of $1223 plus tax.  I told them I'll think about it and just do the oil change/tire swap for now.  The call me back again about 30 minutes later to let me know one of the tires has a nail in the middle of it and ask if I want it fixed - it's $47 plus tax to fix it.  I recalled when I bought it, there was some sort of "$200 tire warranty" that I didn't argue about on my bill (I removed it off the Rio5, but threw them a bone on the Sorento and let them keep it), so I thought perhaps it would be covered under that.  He told me he would look into it.  He calls me back about 15 minutes later and said I did have the tire coverage, but it expired mid December 2018.  I told him that since the tires were removed in the fall when the winters were put on, if it was caught then, it would have been covered and asked if they would cover it for me.  They refused.  I knew $47 to fix a tire was too much, but I just wanted to pick my car up in a few hours and be done with it, so I gave them the go ahead.

After work, I visited the indie shop around the corner from house (instead of on the opposite side of the city where the dealer is) that fixed that trim piece several days prior.  I asked him how much a brake job would be for my car.  $620 plus tax.  I told him I wasn't sure what condition the brakes were in, since they seemed ok, but didn't actually see them.  He said he would only fix what needs fixing, and the $620 assumes new front and rear pads and rotors.  He said if it only needs pads, or just one axle, that's all they would do and charge for.  I asked about the quality of parts, since the dealership quoted me a lot more.  He said dealers charge over $1000 for brakes and told me to use his shop for stuff like that.  I let him know I don't want cheap garbage parts, and that I'm willing to pay a bit more for better parts (thinking perhaps this $620 price is for cheap stuff, but better stuff is available for a bit more money).  He tells me he can get cheaper stuff if it's for something you are only keeping for a year, but the $620 price is for the better parts.  He said the rotors have a 3 year warranty (the OEM only has a 1 or 2 year warranty) and any parts (if needed) have a lifetime warranty.  I've talked to a few people who have used this indie shop and say he is the real deal.  The shop doesn't have free Frappaccino coffees and gourmet pastries in the waiting room, but everyone says pretty good things about them.  I'm bringing the Sorento in on Friday for them to look at the brakes and do what's needed.

Assuming everything goes well, I'll only use the dealership for any warranty related issues (since I have lots of warranty).  Wish me luck with my foray into using an Indie. :)
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Offline ktm525

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 11:03:34 am »
Good luck. ;)

One of the reasons I don't like buying new is that it "ties" you to the dealer somewhat. That being said I bought the Ridgeline new and did all my own maintenance but that is risky if warranty issues crop up as it could lead to a potential fight. If you are not comfortable turning wrenches then a good indy is very important. 

Buying older used cars is easier than buying used cars that are 2-3 years old. With a 12 year old car the shape it is in is a direct reflection on how it was maintained.

Hope that indy works for you.


Offline Arthur Dent

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2019, 11:06:10 am »
$1100 for brakes on Rio5?  :o

Either you are hard one brakes or this dealership likes to sell brakes.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2019, 11:12:04 am »
A good indie is gold. I’ve saved big bucks doing my own work over the years, and probably as much by having a solid indie when I need something done by a tech.

Brake job pricing has gone insane at dealers. I also don’t know anyone that uses a dealer that doesn’t seem to need brakes nearly as often as oil changes.

The Toyota dealer that my dad was taking his Corolla to is super slimy. They told him he needed to spend a bunch of money on a power steering flush. The Corolla is electric, no steering fluid. They tried to sell him a $2K timing belt service. His car has a chain. It goes on and on.

I reluctantly took our Corolla to the dealer as it needed an ECU reflash, and the price was horrendous.

Offline ktm525

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2019, 11:13:42 am »
But I bet the showroom was uber fancy and had free coffee!


Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2019, 11:18:46 am »
As mentioned, being able to relax and trust your mechanic is huge

This part is big: "He said he would only fix what needs fixing"

The one time we took our old CRV to the dealer for a recall the service advisor just about freaked my wife out

He had phoned her with an urgent message starting with a list of things to do starting with something like: 'There's an oil leak, OMG, must be fixed immediately!'

Yeah, no :censor:, the pressure sender weeps a tiny bit, it's a 2002. Doesn't even leave anything on the garage floor

I grew up driving stuff on the farm that looked like it came off the Fury Road set, I know an oil leak that matters when I see one. Nothing he said was of substance, but it all would have cost an arm and a leg to fix

I think some service advisors have a '$1000 minimum charge per visit or get your ass fired' guideline hanging over them



Offline Jaeger

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2019, 11:22:54 am »
Jeebus.  Your dealership service department sounds like it's run by a bunch of crooks.  >:(
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Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2019, 11:29:01 am »
Just remember a Service Adviser is on commission

Offline draghon

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2019, 11:40:10 am »
Brake jobs are gravy for mechanics, usually pay at least 1 hour per axle (more if rotors and calipers need to replaced) and they can finish in significantly less time. Not surprising that an unscrupulous shop would recommend replacing brakes earlier than required.
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Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2019, 12:02:48 pm »
$1100 for brakes on Rio5?  :o

Either you are hard one brakes or this dealership likes to sell brakes.
not hard on brakes at all...first set (factory ones) lasted about 75k kms...i can't remember the exact price, but i think it was about $1100 (including taxes)...don't forget, i also paid "extra" for supposed "premium brakes"...they only lasted about 18 months though.

Online tortoise

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 12:17:18 pm »
The VW is the only car I've owned that's had regular servicing at the dealership.  And that's because I bought it new and it's a VW.  I am happy to pay a little extra for piece of mind should a warranty issue crop up.  That said, it's only going to the dealer for warranty related services (trans, oil, etc).  Anything like brakes will be done by my indie.

I've been going to the same shop for about 15 years.  They treat me great.  I can bring in my own parts, if it's all labour charges I can pay cash and they only do work on what needs to be done and never upsell.  They're always busy with a regular clientele so they don't feel the need to screw people over.   And if I bring in something that needs a quick fix they rarely charge me.   That said, their rates aren't the cheapest.  But the quality of work is high and if there is an issue it's addressed right away.

And I've mentioned it before, but buying the Highlander was a real eye opening into how badly some dealers are fleecing people.  They wanted over $2500 for rear pads, rotors, hubs and e-brake cables.  I bet I got it all done for $600 using good parts.
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Offline Railton

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 12:18:56 pm »
Interesting story and yes, frustrating for you.
I try my hardest to stay out of the dealer if at all possible. Brakes is just one of the things I like to keep out of their hands.
Here's a pic I took of one of the nine year old rotors on the Infiniti G that I have when I did the changeover on the weekend. They look amazing after that much time. The only rust on them is where the additional holes are on the Winter rims.
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Offline johngenx

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 12:26:57 pm »
I know people that have their brakes replaced annually thanks to the push from dealer service advisors.

Marketplace did an expose and found dealers doing brake jobs on cars with more than 30% pad life remaining, or even more.

It’s an easy scam. Brakes are important and 99% of people have no idea of how to check how much pad material is left.

As noted, it’s also gravy. A tech can do four wheels in an hour, charges 4.0 or more and the margin on the parts is large too.

Cabin air filters. Most dealers now charge an hour or more. Most cars take 1-5 minutes to replace the filter.

Fuel injection servicing. They spray a can of stuff into the intake and charge people $200-400.

Fuel system additives. They pour a bottle of stuff in your tank and charge $100-200.

A friend of my wife showed me her service bill. Over $2000 worth of bogus charges  $1200 for brakes that didn’t need doing. The car has 19,000km on it. $150 for an alignment because the summer tires were being installed. $150 for tire swap even though she has dedicated wheels. $399 for a fuel injection service.  $200 for an oil change.

Her “spring service” was over $2K on a car that’s barely two years old and has less than 20K-Kms on it.

When we had the ECU reflash done the dealer called with a list of about $2500 of “pressing items” that they recommended. Pretty much all of it was crap.

I’m sure there are some good dealership service departments out there, but they’re a disappearing breed.

Offline tpl

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 12:51:57 pm »
With these modern computers on wheels  the problem can be finding an indie  who has the factory manuals or the subscription to them.   My local indie is an VAG specialist...I will be dropping in to ask how he feels about these newer ( non-Ford)  Volvos.

For 4 years all I need is a few  extra oil changes.   I just don't believe in these 16,000 km or once a year changes in a) this up and down climate and b)  my many <15 km trips.  An October change and a May change  even though the car uses one of these A5/B5 oils that are specific for long change intervals.
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Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 12:52:51 pm »
Oil changes at the dealer are usually a loser leader for them just to get you in the shop
Some of their package prices are pretty good
But you need to know your pricing and say no or bend over

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 01:22:51 pm »
When I brought the Passat in for the first service in 2016, the service guy had the estimate run up to something like $270 for what should have been an oil change. It was a Monday morning and I wasn't in the mood for shenanigans: "How about you do what I asked for?"

To be fair, he did, and the added fluff wasn't brought up again.
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Offline valuator

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 02:02:26 pm »
My indie was changing my tires on the Pilot last fall and commented that the rear brakes should be done.  Before I booked another appointment, just out of curiosity, I called the local Honda dealership.  You would think they could tell me in about 2 seconds what it would cost, right? Like they probably do these pretty frequently and have a standard price list.  Well they forgot to put the phone on mute while the service advisers came up with a price and I heard them, literally, ponder how much they could get away with charging.  They came back with a price about 75% higher than my indie (who is only middle of the road on pricing, not cheap, but I trust them).  Yeah, not going to be spending a lot of time at the dealership going forward.

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 02:07:23 pm »
I know people that have their brakes replaced annually thanks to the push from dealer service advisors.

Marketplace did an expose and found dealers doing brake jobs on cars with more than 30% pad life remaining, or even more.

It’s an easy scam. Brakes are important and 99% of people have no idea of how to check how much pad material is left.

As noted, it’s also gravy. A tech can do four wheels in an hour, charges 4.0 or more and the margin on the parts is large too.

Cabin air filters. Most dealers now charge an hour or more. Most cars take 1-5 minutes to replace the filter.

Fuel injection servicing. They spray a can of stuff into the intake and charge people $200-400.

Fuel system additives. They pour a bottle of stuff in your tank and charge $100-200.

A friend of my wife showed me her service bill. Over $2000 worth of bogus charges  $1200 for brakes that didn’t need doing. The car has 19,000km on it. $150 for an alignment because the summer tires were being installed. $150 for tire swap even though she has dedicated wheels. $399 for a fuel injection service.  $200 for an oil change.

Her “spring service” was over $2K on a car that’s barely two years old and has less than 20K-Kms on it.

When we had the ECU reflash done the dealer called with a list of about $2500 of “pressing items” that they recommended. Pretty much all of it was crap.

I’m sure there are some good dealership service departments out there, but they’re a disappearing breed.

My god, that is outright theft.

Had the Outback to the indie last week....oil & filter $41.95 and 4-wheel alignment $71.95.  And to their credit, they called and said the alignment was only slightly out and it was up to me and I insisted they do it, since I was putting on new tires.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2019, 03:14:35 pm »
Remember, folks.

Dealership=Stealership
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Offline ktm525

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Re: Pretty much done with dealership - may have found a good Indie Shop
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2019, 02:40:27 pm »
Someone is paying for the shiny new building and "buying experience" and it isn't the dealer. Would you like a latte sir?  :rofl2: