Topic: RRocket's FGC Thread Extravaganza

[quadzilla]

IQ just texted me...window is working again!   

Remind me of this joke.

Person1: Go to the front and let me know if my turn signal is working.
Person2: Ready.
Person1: Is it working?
Person2: Yes it is....No it isn't...Yes it is...No it isn't...Yes it is...No it isn't.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Here's a good example. A simple power window. I was just looking to see how they work on the TT.  I kid you not...a series of pulleys and cables.....what could possibly go wrong? It's no surprise then that these are a common failure on the car.

Aren't all power window actuators cables and pulleys?
All the ones I've changed were, but they were mostly on FGCs

A lot of them are levers...

[ktm525]

Hopefully it wasn't  a flood car.

Was it a US car Ron that a previous owner imported? It would have had a salvage history then. Possibly even a Toronto car, we've had some good flooding in the past few years.
Railton

No flood history.

Just crap German engineering (needlessly complex) and poor quality control IMO....

Here's a good example. A simple power window. I was just looking to see how they work on the TT.  I kid you not...a series of pulleys and cables.....what could possibly go wrong? It's no surprise then that these are a common failure on the car.

How is it that if you buy some crappy, base model Corolla or Rio, the expectation is that you should get a few hundred thousand KMs out of them without headaches. You buy a fancy, $100k German car and you have the same expectation of quality and reliability as a cheap I phone knockoff from wish.com?? How do people just accept that?? Like I get TT is a unique car being a manual, awd coupe....but for the most part, they don't make anything that awesome that makes compensates for the shoddy build quality.

Find the answer to this question and you will achieve transcendence grasshopper. The more money you spend the more money you will spend seems to be par for the course.  .

[johngenx]

Toyota uses levers that are much simpler and longer lasting than most FGC cable systems.

[Fobroader]

Toyota uses levers that are much simpler and longer lasting than most FGC cable systems.

Hell, my old Cherokee and Chev pickup had levers, both were ancient, had over 300,000kms and worked without fail.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Toyota uses levers that are much simpler and longer lasting than most FGC cable systems.

Hell, my old Cherokee and Chev pickup had levers, both were ancient, had over 300,000kms and worked without fail.

I think most vehicles use levers...it's pretty proven tech.  Leave it to the germans to design a completely new, overcomplicated mechanism to replace something that has been proven for decades.

[Fobroader]

Toyota uses levers that are much simpler and longer lasting than most FGC cable systems.

Hell, my old Cherokee and Chev pickup had levers, both were ancient, had over 300,000kms and worked without fail.

I think most vehicles use levers...it's pretty proven tech.  Leave it to the germans to design a completely new, overcomplicated mechanism to replace something that has been proven for decades.

And laugh at all the common folk with "zer stupid levers unt arms" because who would doubt german "engineering".

[blur911]

Toyota uses levers that are much simpler and longer lasting than most FGC cable systems.

Hell, my old Cherokee and Chev pickup had levers, both were ancient, had over 300,000kms and worked without fail.

I think most vehicles use levers...it's pretty proven tech.  Leave it to the germans to design a completely new, overcomplicated mechanism to replace something that has been proven for decades.

And laugh at all the common folk with "zer stupid levers unt arms" because who would doubt german "engineering".

Well, I guess that's why I've only ever replaced cable type, because they break. 

[rrocket]

What could possibly go wrong?

https://youtu.be/smIEwHxUxK4

[Firm]

This is already good, but I have a feeling it's going to be epic.

My brother (and my parents) have sworn off German cars after my brothers 98 SLK230. Many of the same ridiculous electronic and sensor nonsense described here.

Oddly, my 01 SLK320 has been pretty solid. Off hand all I recall is a bad brake pedal switch, an interior light socket and a rear taillight socket...everything else I've done was regular wear items.

As for the window regulators..yes, the Germans have messed it up good, in fact replacing a regulator on a late model Jetta (and probably other VWs) means replacing basically most of the inner door skin. Apparently it's all in the name of saving weight...cables and plastic pulleys are lighter (and probably cheaper) than the old scissor style levers that always work fine 

[dougjp]

What could possibly go wrong?

https://youtu.be/smIEwHxUxK4

Oooh and I thought Halloween was over   

And then there's the problem I had with a VW Jetta turbo, the magic money grab $ 115- to-read-but-not-fix-at-a-dealer dash light came on (yet again), and the error code was not descriptive. Turns out the wiring used to go to the door was, with German precision, only just long enough to reach with the door fully open. After several years the wire frayed and, of course, there was an intermittent problem. Not to be confused with the taillight bulbs problem. 

[warp]

FGCs appear to function normally in Europe but are a money pit on this side of the pond. I wonder why? Admittedly my experience, when visiting Europe, is mainly limited to talking to taxi drivers driving Mercedes diesels and a lot of them have between 200,000 km and 300,000 kms on the odometer without any major problems with vehicles that are 4-6 years old.

[rrocket]

FGCs appear to function normally in Europe but are a money pit on this side of the pond. I wonder why? Admittedly my experience, when visiting Europe, is mainly limited to talking to taxi drivers driving Mercedes diesels and a lot of them have between 200,000 km and 300,000 kms on the odometer without any major problems with vehicles that are 4-6 years old.

The don't function normally...there is more tolerance and forgiveness there than there seems to be here for this type of stuff.

I'm guessing it feels "normal" to them...

[mlin32]

I wouldn't say there is a high tolerance for faults especially within the first few years. The auto magazines here put cars thru 100k and then tear them apart, looking for faults and unusual wear.

It's a combination of factors :

1. There are fewer short trips here. It's called public transit, walking, or the bicycle.
2. The climate is less extreme than Canada, and road salt is extremely sparingly used.
3. The fuel quality is higher.
4. The road infrastructure is on the whole, better maintained.
5. Parts are cheaper, easier to stock and procure, and technicians are locally trained. On the flip side, Japanese and Korean car parts are expensive.

[sailor723]

FGCs appear to function normally in Europe but are a money pit on this side of the pond. I wonder why? Admittedly my experience, when visiting Europe, is mainly limited to talking to taxi drivers driving Mercedes diesels and a lot of them have between 200,000 km and 300,000 kms on the odometer without any major problems with vehicles that are 4-6 years old.

I think it's that Mercedes sells a lot more "basic" cars in Europe without as many hi-tech gizmos. (like the taxi's you mentioned) My 2011 ML diesel had a ton of problems but they were almost all electrical/electronic in nature rather than mechanical.

[rrocket]

I wouldn't say there is a high tolerance for faults especially within the first few years. The auto magazines here put cars thru 100k and then tear them apart, looking for faults and unusual wear.

It's a combination of factors :

1. There are fewer short trips here. It's called public transit, walking, or the bicycle.
2. The climate is less extreme than Canada, and road salt is extremely sparingly used.
3. The fuel quality is higher.
4. The road infrastructure is on the whole, better maintained.
5. Parts are cheaper, easier to stock and procure, and technicians are locally trained. On the flip side, Japanese and Korean car parts are expensive.

None of the factors you list have anything to do with the Achilles heel of German cars...electronic components, their complex or silly engineering of said parts and their lack of reliability because of that.

[mlin32]

I wouldn't say there is a high tolerance for faults especially within the first few years. The auto magazines here put cars thru 100k and then tear them apart, looking for faults and unusual wear.

It's a combination of factors :

1. There are fewer short trips here. It's called public transit, walking, or the bicycle.
2. The climate is less extreme than Canada, and road salt is extremely sparingly used.
3. The fuel quality is higher.
4. The road infrastructure is on the whole, better maintained.
5. Parts are cheaper, easier to stock and procure, and technicians are locally trained. On the flip side, Japanese and Korean car parts are expensive.

None of the factors you list have anything to do with the Achilles heel of German cars...electronic components, their complex or silly engineering of said parts and their lack of reliability because of that.

I would say short trips, extreme climate  (= battery discharge) play an important factor. Salt can get into connectors and other components suspectible and cause long term damage.

But we agree to disagree. If German cars were really that terrible, no one would be on the roads in Europe, and people would have stopped buying German cars long ago given the plethora of choices and competitve car market.

[rrocket]

I wouldn't say there is a high tolerance for faults especially within the first few years. The auto magazines here put cars thru 100k and then tear them apart, looking for faults and unusual wear.

It's a combination of factors :

1. There are fewer short trips here. It's called public transit, walking, or the bicycle.
2. The climate is less extreme than Canada, and road salt is extremely sparingly used.
3. The fuel quality is higher.
4. The road infrastructure is on the whole, better maintained.
5. Parts are cheaper, easier to stock and procure, and technicians are locally trained. On the flip side, Japanese and Korean car parts are expensive.

None of the factors you list have anything to do with the Achilles heel of German cars...electronic components, their complex or silly engineering of said parts and their lack of reliability because of that.

I would say short trips, extreme climate  (= battery discharge) play an important factor. Salt can get into connectors and other components suspectible and cause long term damage.

But we agree to disagree. If German cars were really that terrible, no one would be on the roads in Europe, and people would have stopped buying German cars long ago given the plethora of choices and competitve car market.

A great many parts of North Anaya the climate is no more extreme (and less so) than in areas of Europe. Not all areas of North America use salt either.

And the reliability reports year after year bear out the less reliable nature of German cars.

[EV-Light]

Europeans perceive reliability in a very different manner than we do...hence why you see tons of German, French and Italian cars on the road...




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[TheHire]

You know, I firmly believe that a good part of older FGC problems has to do with routine maintenance. My dad has a 2010 E-Class that has just over 80,000km on it. He now puts about 5,000km a year on it (tops) and gives it synthetic oil changes once a year and has a good German independent that takes care of it. It's been pretty much bulletproof. The real ticking time bomb there is that the car has Airmatic air suspension. It's been fine all its life, but let's see how that turns out.

My mom has a 2015 C-Class with the V6 that has also been absolutely bulletproof; it now has 105,000km or so on it.