Topic: First Drive: 2011 Kia Optima Hybrid

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I really like the looks of the Optima, wheels included.

[Cord]

The Optima Hybrid Premium handily out-prices and out-equips the Ford Fusion Hybrid, for example, which lists for over $40,000 without leather upholstery.

This is the problem with basing price comparisons strictly on MSRP. Pricing out a 2011 Fusion Hybrid on ford.ca with every possible factory option results in a purchase price of $35,799 + tax ($34,745 without leather).

I would've tried the same thing with the Optima but kia.ca just crashes whenever I try it.

You understand that reviewers can't rely on these incentives when comparing cars, right?

Why can't they? Why can't they take a couple minutes and price the vehicle out on the manufacturer's web site? That way at least they provide accurate information at the time they write their review. How is that worse than making price comparisons that are wildly inaccurate and will likely never be accurate? If they require their reviews to be accurate for any time in the future they should avoid making absolute references to price in their articles.

[PJ]

The Optima Hybrid Premium handily out-prices and out-equips the Ford Fusion Hybrid, for example, which lists for over $40,000 without leather upholstery.

This is the problem with basing price comparisons strictly on MSRP. Pricing out a 2011 Fusion Hybrid on ford.ca with every possible factory option results in a purchase price of $35,799 + tax ($34,745 without leather).

I would've tried the same thing with the Optima but kia.ca just crashes whenever I try it.

You understand that reviewers can't rely on these incentives when comparing cars, right?

Why can't they? Why can't they take a couple minutes and price the vehicle out on the manufacturer's web site? That way at least they provide accurate information at the time they write their review. How is that worse than making price comparisons that are wildly inaccurate and will likely never be accurate? If they require their reviews to be accurate for any time in the future they should avoid making absolute references to price in their articles.

There are problems with using incentives to compare prices in a review.  Not all incentives are available everywhere but people in every province will read it.  They also often come and go quickly making the article out of date shortly after it is written.  There are also conditions on a lot of them that are not clear until you talk to the dealer in person.

Better to stick to MSRP and let the buyer do the wheeling and dealing.

[Cord]

The Optima Hybrid Premium handily out-prices and out-equips the Ford Fusion Hybrid, for example, which lists for over $40,000 without leather upholstery.

This is the problem with basing price comparisons strictly on MSRP. Pricing out a 2011 Fusion Hybrid on ford.ca with every possible factory option results in a purchase price of $35,799 + tax ($34,745 without leather).

I would've tried the same thing with the Optima but kia.ca just crashes whenever I try it.

You understand that reviewers can't rely on these incentives when comparing cars, right?

Why can't they? Why can't they take a couple minutes and price the vehicle out on the manufacturer's web site? That way at least they provide accurate information at the time they write their review. How is that worse than making price comparisons that are wildly inaccurate and will likely never be accurate? If they require their reviews to be accurate for any time in the future they should avoid making absolute references to price in their articles.

There are problems with using incentives to compare prices in a review.  Not all incentives are available everywhere but people in every province will read it.  They also often come and go quickly making the article out of date shortly after it is written.  There are also conditions on a lot of them that are not clear until you talk to the dealer in person.

Better to stick to MSRP and let the buyer do the wheeling and dealing.

I'm not talking about pricing after wheeling and dealing. I'm talking about the price available to anyone that looks on a manufacturer's web site. Although price differences between provinces is rare, why can't the reviewer just indicate what they are in his/her province? Even if there are price differences in different provinces, isn't it better that the review is accurate for somebody rather than being inaccurate for everybody? You don't make a level playing field by making sure information is inaccurate for everyone.

How does it benefit any reader of this article to have the author misstate a car's price (before any wheeling and dealing) by more than $5000? Especially when the author's point is to compare one car's price with another. Would it have been so hard in this case for the reviewer to write, "As of the date of this review the Fusion Hybrid is available for $XX,XXX"? Granted, that would've changed the tone of that part of the review but surely a reviewer wants the review to follow the facts rather than presenting inaccurate data to support a particular notion.

The quoting of MSRP when reviewing cars is just lazy reviewing. Let me ask anyone here: when shopping for a car, do you compare their MSRPs or do you compare the prices currently listed by the manufacturer? If MSRP is a relevant benchmark, how come no one uses it when comparison shopping?

That's all I need to say on this regarding this review.

Having said all that, the Optima is a great looking car other than the wheels. And pending its reliability looks like a good value.

[JohnM]

The Optima is a fairly large car and heavily optioned.  On the other end, just for comparison, my Echo has gotten about 4.8L/100km on the last 2 tankfulls.

Driving maybe in similar conditions maybe to the Optima - secondary roads, 70 to 100km speeds a few small towns and VERY HOT WEATHER.  This makes a huge difference.  Like to see a Volt comparison in these conditions.

But in the end the real step-up in average mileage has to come from much smaller, much more efficient cars.  I await the IQ hybrid in 2013(??).

Cheers,
John M.

[conwelpic]

There are problems with using incentives to compare prices in a review.  Not all incentives are available everywhere but people in every province will read it.  They also often come and go quickly making the article out of date shortly after it is written.  There are also conditions on a lot of them that are not clear until you talk to the dealer in person.

Better to stick to MSRP and let the buyer do the wheeling and dealing.

I totally agree, for reviews its best to compare on the MSRP which is fixed for the model year, not to prices that vary from one month to the next.  It is in no way misleading to do this as its puts everyone on a level playing field.

[Shnak]

The Optima Hybrid Premium handily out-prices and out-equips the Ford Fusion Hybrid, for example, which lists for over $40,000 without leather upholstery.

This is the problem with basing price comparisons strictly on MSRP. Pricing out a 2011 Fusion Hybrid on ford.ca with every possible factory option results in a purchase price of $35,799 + tax ($34,745 without leather).

I would've tried the same thing with the Optima but kia.ca just crashes whenever I try it.

You understand that reviewers can't rely on these incentives when comparing cars, right?

Why can't they? Why can't they take a couple minutes and price the vehicle out on the manufacturer's web site? That way at least they provide accurate information at the time they write their review. How is that worse than making price comparisons that are wildly inaccurate and will likely never be accurate? If they require their reviews to be accurate for any time in the future they should avoid making absolute references to price in their articles.

It's not a matter of taking a few minutes or whatever, it's a matter of ensuring the review remains relevant for more than a month or two. What's the point of reviewing the Fusion in July 2011 and recommend it highly based on the great incentives, and then you have a reader in August or September that can't get anywhere near the same deals as the incentives are all gone. Incentives are temporary and can vary from week to week... MSRP remains the same.

[greengs]

I could live with the wheels but not the "sea of grey" as someone mentioned earlier.  Haven't looked it up yet but hopefully there are some colour options for the interior.

A little disappointed in the reported mileage.  Travelling at 90 to 110 km/hr you should be able to match (or beat) the hwy figure even on the small mountains of Vancouver Island.  6.2 is a long way off from 4.9.

All together it is an interesting car and if in the market for a large hybrid I would certainly consider it over a Camry hybrid.

Driving at 110kph will result in much worse fuel economy than driving at 90kph... to achieve the official rating of 4.9L/100km, you'd need to drive at 90kph with very little wind on relatively flat roads.

Check the VW Passat review from a few weeks ago.  115km/h, 4.5L/100kms matching the official rating.  No hybrid can match it.  The only hybrid on the market that I would even look at is the Infiniti M35h.  V8 power, 4cyl fuel consumption.

http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2012-volkswagen-passat/2

Diesels are hard to beat on the highway. 

[Shnak]

Oh, no question about that. In the city is where hybrid vehicles shine. On the other hand, you have to be careful about where you fill up your diesel tank while cruising on highways, they don't sell diesel everywhere! And when they do sell diesel, you have to wash your hands for a while for the smell to disappear... I know, I've lived with TDI's for over a year, and got nervous a few times while on route to NB and hoping to find a station that sold diesel with the needle on E... You know, there's pluses and negatives with everything.

Plus, to get the awesome TDI engine, you have to get the rest of the VW car with it... and I'd rather not, personally, for a few more years, until they've proven they can build a reliable car that's inexpensive to own and maintain. For the moment, I'd rather get something that I trust a little more.