Topic: Kia's Stinger Sports sedan

[johngenx]

Even though it has over 300hp, the Camry is not a sports/performance sedan.  It's just a nicely powered comfy cruiser.  It's tuned for a comfortable ride and has pretty much no sporting pretensions.

The Stinger is more oriented towards the sporty end of the spectrum.  I think people that like the plush ride of the Camry will be turned off the Stinger, and the other way as well.  The Stinger to me, seems like a competitor to some of the BMW/Mercedes/Audi line as well as the Lexus IS and the Infinity what-ever-it's-named-now-used-to-be-G-sedan.  When you look at the driveline, AWD and some of the other stuff, the Stinger pricing looks pretty spot on.

One set of features Kia needs to add to the base price is smart cruise and the safety features that come with the system.  Those are rapidly spreading to even inexpensive cars and there's no reason any car priced over $30K doesn't have it now.

[Jaeger]

^^ Yeah not sure how this thread downgraded to the comparison with The Camry. No way I’d take a Camry over the Stinger and like John said the Stinger is really the affordable competitor to the Audi/BMWs we’ve been discussing.

Looking in these terms though the Stinger is attractive. If you’ve already convinced yourself about spending $45K on some sort of mainstream sedan you’d be foolish (at least on paper) not to strongly consider the Stinger.

Again I see the Stinger being more successful bottom up (ex Camry to stinger) that top to bottom (S5 to stinger).

Again as I said before. A similar space to the TL 10 yers ago.

Yabut, if we are looking at the Audi lineup (or German offerings in general) the comparison need not be restricted to the higher end performance variants like S5.  It doesn't take a lot of creative option clicking to get north of $50k on a regular A4 Sedan with the 2.0T.  And I'm sure it's very nice.  But I think the Stinger makes a more compelling performance bang for the buck argument there. 

[EV-Light]

The Stinger to me, seems like a competitor to some of the BMW/Mercedes/Audi line as well as the Lexus IS and the Infinity what-ever-it's-named-now-used-to-be-G-sedan.  When you look at the driveline, AWD and some of the other stuff, the Stinger pricing looks pretty spot on.

...and that is what’s making some people mad - how could Kia have created a sports GT that can be compared with the germans!!


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[Ex-airbalancer]

I think in 5 years there will be zero members with a Stinger 

[BWII]

I think in 5 years there will be zero members with a Stinger

[Jaeger]

There is little value proposition with Audi.

With respect to why the Camry was brought up, it was brought up by Jagaer asking why someone would buy a Camry over the Stinger.

No, I said I didn't agree with the claim that a Stinger GT should cost no more than a loaded Camry - ie it was overpriced by 10 per cent.

[alljay]

I think in 5 years there will be zero members with a Stinger

The same statement could be made about any of the more heavily discussed cars on the forum.  How many members will own a 'vette, Genesis G70, Mazda 6, Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt -- the most cars with the longest recent threads in this forum? 

Then again, in 5 yrs, the Stinger will be due for a 2nd generation, so there is a chance that it could be converted into a  wagon with a manual transmission and a diesel engine with a killer cafe au lait colour.  It might be the most popular car on the forum.

[alljay]

There is little value proposition with Audi.

With respect to why the Camry was brought up, it was brought up by Jagaer asking why someone would buy a Camry over the Stinger.

No, I said I didn't agree with the claim that a Stinger GT should cost no more than a loaded Camry - ie it was overpriced by 10 per cent.

Who claimed that the Stinger should be priced the same as a loaded Camry?

The only quote I can find is from you: "People are obviously entitled to their opinions on pricing and everything else for that matter.  But really, this twin turbo beast of a GT shouldn't be priced any higher than a loaded Camry?    I don't get that at all."

Going back to the original posts in this thread, there were people saying that this car "had to cost in the mid-30s" to have a chance at success and that at $45k, it would be 10% (or more) over priced.  I think that I might have been the first one to say that the suggested prices would put the Stinger in direct price competition with the Camry and Accord (and lower than the top end models of those cars).  I think the point that Jaeger and others, including myself, is that it isn't realistic to expect this car to be priced in the same band as Camrys and Accords.

[Jaeger]

There is little value proposition with Audi.

With respect to why the Camry was brought up, it was brought up by Jagaer asking why someone would buy a Camry over the Stinger.

No, I said I didn't agree with the claim that a Stinger GT should cost no more than a loaded Camry - ie it was overpriced by 10 per cent.

Who claimed that the Stinger should be priced the same as a loaded Camry?

The only quote I can find is from you: "People are obviously entitled to their opinions on pricing and everything else for that matter.  But really, this twin turbo beast of a GT shouldn't be priced any higher than a loaded Camry?    I don't get that at all."

Going back to the original posts in this thread, there were people saying that this car "had to cost in the mid-30s" to have a chance at success and that at $45k, it would be 10% (or more) over priced.  I think that I might have been the first one to say that the suggested prices would put the Stinger in direct price competition with the Camry and Accord (and lower than the top end models of those cars).  I think the point that Jaeger and others, including myself, is that it isn't realistic to expect this car to be priced in the same band as Camrys and Accords.

Yes, that's it exactly.

[alljay]

Speaking of cross shopping....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j43KwVjdTuI

Interesting video.  I wouldn't have cross shopped those cars with the Stinger, but fun to see it in that light.  The Stinger is a GT car, so it doesn't surprise me that it struggled a bit around the track.  The Golf R is a fantastic car (and one that I will look at when I make my next purchase), but the Focus is too hard core and the Civic is, for me anyway, way too over the top.  As a guy in his late 40s, I couldn't see myself driving around in the Civic or the Focus, but I could definitely see myself behind the wheel of the VW or the Kia.

[Noto]

That one is optioned with halogen headlights.  I know it's Aussieland, but at least all models except the base in Canada come with LED low-beams standard.

I'd take the Golf R in that comparo.

[Gurgie]

VW snob?  LMAO.  I am in the midst of a buyback you ____.

What!?!?!? Golf R is going back to VW???

[Jaeger]

I wish he was able to explain himself, but not to be. Perhaps we will never know specifically what he meant, or even if he was talking about a different autocross track or the open road at speed.

He was talking about the same autocross course as me, and auto box is too slow to kick down.. You have to use the paddles with some pre-planning or the engine isn't where it needs to be in order to fire out of the corner.

I agree with you guys... Nobody is likely to autocross these two often, or drive them hard. But it's worth noting that the Audi and BMW boxes are better for hustling.

This was one of Randy Pobst big complaints too.

So I happened to come across the Youtube vid of Randy's track test of the Stinger again and I thought I'd pay closer attention to what he said about the transmission, because my recollection was that there wasn't any "big complaint" about it.

Here's what he said, starting ~ 9 min:

"Even in sport mode the 8 speed automatic is not smart enough or calibrated for track work.  So I go into manual mode.  And it's not full manual - it'll upshift.  But what I get is good quick downshifts with a nice rev match."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSWQTkbTYIQ&t=55s

Now it may be a matter of semantics, but I'm not reading that as a big complaint in the context of the review or in any context at all.  Seems to me he's saying for flat out driving on the track you want to be in manual mode (hardly surprising) and in that mode you get good quick rev-matched downshifts from the transmission.

I wish when people complained about me they sounded that complimentary. 

None of that is to say that the Audi and BMW transmissions aren't better.  Just that even in the context of flat out track testing (and Randy was on a racetrack - not in a parking lot with traffic cones) the transmission worked well in manual mode.

[conwelpic]

Dec 12

https://blog.caranddriver.com/kia-stinger-gt-by-the-numbers/

[conwelpic]

Dec 16 - back to back comparison to the Infinity Q50 on Alex on Autos

https://youtu.be/XCmuKu5n7Og

[johngenx]

Am I the only one that thinks Randy Pobst should be the only test driver and on-camera talent for MT?  His segments are so much better than the others.

[CanuckS2K]

Dec 16 - back to back comparison to the Infinity Q50 on Alex on Autos

https://youtu.be/XCmuKu5n7Og

Pretty solid review on both of those, and they both offer a lot of bang for your buck.  If there is one thing that I would like on our Q50S that the Stinger has is the cargo room. 

[rrocket]

The Stinger is turning the class on its head.  Reminds me of Honda 30 years ago.  Well done.  That Infiniti is a distant second.

You have to outsell the competition or seriously put a dent in the competition numbers to turn the class on its head IMO...(like Lexus did for example when they came out)

[revalations]

The Stinger is turning the class on its head.  Reminds me of Honda 30 years ago.  Well done.  That Infiniti is a distant second.

Lol, the car hasn't even won a single major award. When a vehicle comes on the scene that turns the class on its head it usually wins some awards. I guess it was one of the finalist for M/T's Car Of The Year.

[rrocket]

The Stinger is turning the class on its head.  Reminds me of Honda 30 years ago.  Well done.  That Infiniti is a distant second.

Lol, the car hasn't even won a single major award. When a vehicle comes on the scene that turns the class on its head it usually wins some awards. I guess it was one of the finalist for M/T's Car Of The Year.

It has to make inroads in the competitions sales, too. Otherwise it's nothing more than a car that has a nice spec sheet...and generally that doesn't cause the competition to rethink their products or pricing...which means it has done little to the class.

A car that has done this was when the Lexus LS was introduced for example. Had it not had significant sales, the competition wouldn't have cared.