Topic: State of Charge: Canadian Electric Infrastructure Growing for Fuel Cells, EVs and all power customers

[Autos_Editor]

Cheaper electricity rates and back-up power potential all part of what make the latest EVs and new EV infrastructure tempting for potential owners.
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[JohnM]

I'd love to see a comparison story on the life cycle and infrastructure costs of fuel cell and EVs.  I simply do not understand the attraction of hydrogen other than range and re-charge time.

In terms of net energy it has to be much less efficient and any kind of workable grid has to be vastly more expensive.   I almost expect the next generation (or maybe 2 generations away) of EVs to have the fuel cells covered and made irrelevant.

Laying this all out in a story would be very useful and might uncover why the car companies think fuel cells have a future.

Cheers,
John M.

[Danno001]

      If the multi-billions spent on windmills and solar and been spent on hardening the grid to avoid blackouts, wouldn't we be further ahead?
Nevermind that solar and wind energy need nat gas, nuclear back up to ensure we have power when the sun doesn't shine, and when the wind doesn't blow.
     Just heard a CBC radio story where these is a solar farm going into Temiskaming area (Northern Ontario), where we maybe get 6 hours usable sun shine in the winter. The project is selling solar bonds and the return on investment is 12 % on the later years of the 20 year bonds. Feels like Ontario taxpayers will be on the hook for this project as well.

[Rupert]

   Nuclear works better if run continuously at optimum levels...so this would be the main source of supply...would it not. Other sources...wind, water, gas and sunshine would be the back-up's. You can turn them off easily with less downside when too much supply is produced. If they all end up adding up to the power of a neuk plant then one less of these is required. At least I thought that was the way it is supposed to be.
   15 min is along time to be at a charge station. Add to that the 30 min waiting time for the two cars ahead of you and one owner who has time for a full fill. Hmmm.

[redman]

This particular charger looks more like a prototype. It seems overly large and cumbersome.

[JohnM]

Natural gas plants are a better base load since they can be modulated rapidly to best fit with solar and wind sources.    Smart metering allows considerable flexibility as well.  Make hay while the sun shines and the wind blows.

Nuclear definitely has a lifespan as nuclear fuel gets scarce quickly once demand ramps up.  Nuclear downsides are well known and as large as they are hard to quantify.

No matter how you cut it, energy will be more expensive and less abundant going forward.  Hydrogen seems to have several answers but the efficiency and grid costs are fatal flaws as far as I can see.

Cheers,
John M.

[Danno001]

Natural gas plants 

 ^^^   The answer for the foreseeable future - and produce power at very competitive rates to any other sources.

[Noto]

Natural gas plants 

 ^^^   The answer for the foreseeable future - and produce power at very competitive rates to any other sources.

Lady Noto bought these for me a few years ago...

[Neromanceres]

Ontario's grid is mostly nuclear and hydro electric.  Nuclear is great for base load and hydro electric is great for demand response.   Also hydro can be stored.  The Sir Adam Beck station near Niagra Falls has large water storage ponds that it can use for high and low peak energy demands.

The reality is there is a lot of hype about wind and solar but the amount invested is a very small tiny fraction of what is spent on our total energy needs.  Also Ontario has begun a lot investment in grid storage to help stabilize flucuations caused by wind and solar peaks.

For more information on Ontario's grid see www.ieso.ca
The website also gives you an hour by hour breakdown of Ontario's grid and sources of electricity.

As for Fuel Cells. Hydrogen doesn't make much sense as an efficient fuel.  It will always be more expensive than electricity.  Hydrogen doesn't exist in a pure form anywhere in the world even though it exists everywhere as part of other elements.  To make hydorgen takes energy.  Currently most Hydrogen is made from natural gas.

[redman]

Natural gas plants 

 ^^^   The answer for the foreseeable future - and produce power at very competitive rates to any other sources.

Lady Noto bought these for me a few years ago...

Well, that makes 2 who think your full of hot air !!                                                Could not resist since you put it out there.