Topic: Official: Gas Guzzler Tax Discussion

[random006]

Meanwhile Buzz Hargrove, president of the Canadian Auto Workers union, said he believes the incentives will put hybrids on the shopping list of more consumers but cost jobs here.
"The incentive is to buy vehicles that we don't produce in Canada," he said. "We've got enough problems in the industry, enough people already on layoff and thousands scheduled to be laid off before the end of the year. And now our government is encouraging people to buy vehicles from offshore to throw more people out of work."

Same ol same ol.  How about turning that logic on its head and saying that it's an opportunity to showcase their other vehicles and continue to move in that direction.  Good old fashioned entrepreneurial spirit rising in the face of adversity.

Perhaps this will allow the big 3 to stop the bleeding on the non-truck fleet.

Finally, the new budget might accelerate some of the manufacturers' annual tweaking and sweetening of their offerings.  I'm referring to plans to add a more efficient transmission in one year and a better engine the next, followed by a lighter frame and so on.

[Paul Allen]

If they would do something to get the older vehicles off the road they would help the environment way more than this plan will.  Todays vehicles are very clean.  An older high mileage vehicle that is in poor repair is polluting the air 10 times more than any new SUV.  They didn't do their homework on this one as usual.  What would be wrong with consulting some industry people that know what is going on before coming up with these plans?  This whole thing is politically based and gives no thought to how it affects industry.

[tpl]

So no extra rebates on diesels? 

To be fair, the thresholds for diesel vehicles should be 15% lower than those for gasoline vehicles to account for the higher energy and carbon content of diesel.

yes. If we had any choice in diesels that would be correct and I suppose it is possible that the techies at Transport Canada will persuade the gov to do that when we do have some diesels.

[initial_D]

Trucks are classified as a 'work' vehicle?

[Snowman]

I drive my truck to work!

[Titanium48]

Trucks are classified as a 'work' vehicle?

That's no reason not to include them.  There's no reason that 1500 series half tons shouldn't be subjected to the SUV standards.  A higher allowance for 2500 and 3500 series trucks would be reasonable - perhaps the rebates/fees could kick in at 10 and 15 L/100km respectively for vehicles with over 1200 kg of cargo capacity and 12 and 18 L/100km for vehicles with over 1800 kg of cargo capacity.

[Arthur Dent]

If they would do something to get the older vehicles off the road they would help the environment way more than this plan will.  Todays vehicles are very clean.  An older high mileage vehicle that is in poor repair is polluting the air 10 times more than any new SUV.  They didn't do their homework on this one as usual.  What would be wrong with consulting some industry people that know what is going on before coming up with these plans?  This whole thing is politically based and gives no thought to how it affects industry.

that of course doesn't take into account the emissions related to producing a vehicle which are higher than what it will emit out the tailpipe throughout it whole life ...

[Mitlov]

At the same time the asians didnt push the bigger ones not coz they couldnt engeneer them but because they saw it coming and instead invested in high tech. Now it (finally!) turned out to be a prudent investment.

Because when I see the hordes of XTerras and Titans on Sourthern Oregon's roads, am I supposed to believe that these are NOT gas-guzzling because they're "asians"?  Am I supposed to forget that Infiniti's most fuel-efficient vehicle is the 306 hp G35, which isn't exactly miserly with the dinosaur juice?

[ghost]

I doubt this tax will hurt the SUV sales. I do hope so though. Dang... no more Cayenne Turbo for me.  This is a positive and practical step if we want to move forward with this "Save the Planet" thing. Although i'd also clam down on old vehicles. those are worse.
From a political side, hey Harper can do what Dion did... just mumbled something, named a dog for good measure and call it a day. 

[2JDM]

So why won't Toyota build Hybrid models here?

[ArticSteve]

What this budget will  drive sales for Honda and Toyota.  For Toyota, APPARENTLY, Corolla receives $1000. refund.  Yaris more and then not sure the numbers for Camry Hybrid.  Civic just became a $1000 cheaper.  Not sure about the numbers on the FIT.  Intertestingly, the Ontario gov. still considers the Civic a gas guzzler. 

In contrast the Ford Marquis gets nailed for $1000  in addition to the Ontario gas guzzler tax.  Any Ford ppl know what that is. 

Yes, non work pickups excempt from gas guzzler tax.  The whole thing is stupid government policy. 

Toyota Prius: $2,000 (4.1)
Honda Civic Hybrid: $2,000 (4.5)
Toyota Corolla: $1,000 (6.3)
Mini Cooper M6: $1,000 (6.5)
Ford Escape HEV 4x4: $2,000 (7.4)
Saturn Vue Hybrid: $1,000 (7.9)


 

[2latecrew]

If they would do something to get the older vehicles off the road they would help the environment way more than this plan will.  Todays vehicles are very clean.  An older high mileage vehicle that is in poor repair is polluting the air 10 times more than any new SUV.  They didn't do their homework on this one as usual.  What would be wrong with consulting some industry people that know what is going on before coming up with these plans?  This whole thing is politically based and gives no thought to how it affects industry.

its nice in theory but the majority of older vehicles on the road are still on the road becuse they are cheap affordable transportaion.

People don't drive $500 15 year old beaters becuse they WANT to. They drive them becuse its all they can afford. How do you incentivize someon with a $500 beater to go out and buy a NEW car?

[99 Silver]

From Acticsteve:

"All for the sake of the "green vote", pure politics"  

Yes just like the Liberals ratifying Kyoto knowing full well that there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that we will make the targets and then hiring a comedian to sell it to us!

[Titanium48]

If they would do something to get the older vehicles off the road they would help the environment way more than this plan will.  Todays vehicles are very clean.  An older high mileage vehicle that is in poor repair is polluting the air 10 times more than any new SUV.  They didn't do their homework on this one as usual.  What would be wrong with consulting some industry people that know what is going on before coming up with these plans?  This whole thing is politically based and gives no thought to how it affects industry.

its nice in theory but the majority of older vehicles on the road are still on the road becuse they are cheap affordable transportaion.

People don't drive $500 15 year old beaters becuse they WANT to. They drive them becuse its all they can afford. How do you incentivize someon with a $500 beater to go out and buy a NEW car?

Mandatory emissions testing everywhere (not just in southern Ontario and southwestern BC) would help with the poor repair problem.  Properly functioning early to mid-1990s cars aren't that bad.  Also, the program we're talking about isn't concerned with toxic emissions but with CO2 (ie. fuel consumption).  Many cars from the 1990s get very good fuel economy, in some cases better than newer cars.

[ArticSteve]

From Acticsteve:

"All for the sake of the "green vote", pure politics"   

Yes just like the Liberals ratifying Kyoto knowing full well that there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that we will make the targets and then hiring a comedian to sell it to us!

Save your off topic rantings for the political forum.

This is going to cost the BIG 3 in Canada plenty in lost sales/money.  It's going to further assist Japanese makers that don't need it.  That and the hypocrisy about taxing SUVs while passing on 1/2 ton pleasure only crew cabs is bad government tax policy.  

[RunsinLight]

For me it will convince people already in the small-ish (me) car market to purchase a Corolla, Yarius etc.. Which I otherwise wouldn't have because of the price.

[Mitlov]

This is going to cost the BIG 3 in Canada plenty in lost sales/money.  It's going to further assist Japanese makers that don't need it.

I think it's going to hurt Nissan too.  At least from what I've seen, Nissan SUVs sell a lot better than Nissan passenger cars...and the XTerra/Pathfinder V6/Pathfinder V8/Armada aren't exactly miserly with petroleum.

[ArticSteve]

And every Police Force in Canada will have their budgets made worse; less money for enforcement.  This federal gas guzzler tax is not refundable like the GST. 

[PJungnitsch]

Looks like the Smart can be added to the $2000 rebate list, 4.2 L combined.

"New 2006 vehicles that have never been registered for use in Canada, and meet the program’s fuel consumption criteria will be eligible."

New ones are branded 2006's until the 2008 model comes out in the fall.

[EV Dan]

If they would do something to get the older vehicles off the road they would help the environment way more than this plan will.  Todays vehicles are very clean.  An older high mileage vehicle that is in poor repair is polluting the air 10 times more than any new SUV.  They didn't do their homework on this one as usual.  What would be wrong with consulting some industry people that know what is going on before coming up with these plans?  This whole thing is politically based and gives no thought to how it affects industry.

its nice in theory but the majority of older vehicles on the road are still on the road becuse they are cheap affordable transportaion.

People don't drive $500 15 year old beaters becuse they WANT to. They drive them becuse its all they can afford. How do you incentivize someon with a $500 beater to go out and buy a NEW car?

Totally agree with the last post. The only realistic way to fix it is to subsidize replacing emission components on the old cars. Many old cars are fine on gas.