Topic: Complicated Estate Situation - Advice Greatly Appreciated

[derekoconnell]

Hey everyone,

I have a situation that I am having a hard time figuring out and would love some input from people who are more knowledgable in this area than I am.

Backstory:

• My Grandpa passed away in July, 2018.
• My Aunt is the executor on the will.
• Grandpa's car (2014 Chevrolet Cruze LT) is to be my inheritance and will be gifted to me from the Estate by the Executor (my Aunt)
• The car is registered to the Estate (it was transferred from my Grandpa's name recently so that we could renew the plates as they expired in December)
• I drove the car back to BC (where I live) from Ontario (where the car is registered and my Grandpa and Aunt lived/live)
• The car cannot be transferred into my name until the Grant of Probate has passed through the Ontario court system - this can take an indeterminate amount of time and is generally just an awful process
• My Grandpa had paid for a year of insurance before he passed and my Aunty contacted the insurance company and they have agreed to insure the car as if my Grandpa had just loaned it out to me. This insurance runs out on January 31st and they will not renew it because the car is being driven out of province (in BC)
• We have no way to get the car back to Ontario (nor do we want to spend that money) to get it re-insured by the current insurance company

Question:

What I am hoping to find through the wisdom of this forum is an Ontario insurance company who will insure the car for us while it is residing out of province and in the name of an Estate. In all likelihood we could have the Grant of Probate before the end of January, but there is also the chance that we don't get it until Feb, Mar, Apr or who knows when. I really don't want to have to go out and buy a $500 clunker to drive around until I can legally be considered the owner of the car I've been driving (and enjoying) since July. Can anyone think of an insurance company in Ontario that would potentially insure us in this situation?

Thank you so much if you made it this far into the post, I know it's a long one!

Cheers,

Derek

[dougjp]

Doubtful any Insurance Company will commence a new client sign up in this situation, and it will only be luck if someone reading this works at an Insurance Company and tests it out that a true answer will come, one way or the other.

The car should have been transferred to you before leaving the Province, either for free being a relative (if a grandson qualifies, I dunno), or sold to you by the Estate for a nominal sum (with even more nominal taxes paid and therefore forget about the car being willed to you). But unless you qualify for a free transfer to a relative, it may be too late for a sale to happen now, with the need for an Ontario safety certificate. Or, perhaps sold 'as is' and then go through the hoops in BC? I haven't looked up the details of these but it should be easy online.

[HeliDriver]

The car should have been ...

Can’t do anything until probate is granted. That’s the problem.

The car is in BC, so have you talked to ICBC? Maybe the estate can have the car registered and insured there for now? Then transfer to you after probate has been granted.

[Firm]

Who has signing authority for the estate? Your aunt? If so, have her 'sell' the car to you for some nominal amount in Ontario, pay the tax (likely based on Blue Book) and have it transferred to your name in Ontario as 'unfit' (without a safety certificate). Then, take your 'unfit' Ontario ownership to the BC office and follow whatever the 'out of province' registration process in BC is.

At least that's the process I'd look into - but I am no expert on these things, so there may be some reason why what I outlined above doesn't work.

[ArticSteve]

I agree. Problem is that the on gov will want about a grand in sales tax.  Red book got to be at least 8k

Rock and a hard place

No on insurer is going to write a policy on that car as it stands now

[HeliDriver]

Who has signing authority for the estate? Your aunt? If so, have her 'sell' the car to you for some nominal amount in Ontario, pay the tax (likely based on Blue Book) and have it transferred to your name in Ontario as 'unfit' (without a safety certificate). Then, take your 'unfit' Ontario ownership to the BC office and follow whatever the 'out of province' registration process in BC is.

At least that's the process I'd look into - but I am no expert on these things, so there may be some reason why what I outlined above doesn't work.

That’s the whole point of probate. Nothing can be done with the estate’s assets until probate is granted. The executor can’t just sell stuff or give it away or distribute it until that time. Everything is basically frozen, for now.

[Firm]

Who has signing authority for the estate? Your aunt? If so, have her 'sell' the car to you for some nominal amount in Ontario, pay the tax (likely based on Blue Book) and have it transferred to your name in Ontario as 'unfit' (without a safety certificate). Then, take your 'unfit' Ontario ownership to the BC office and follow whatever the 'out of province' registration process in BC is.

At least that's the process I'd look into - but I am no expert on these things, so there may be some reason why what I outlined above doesn't work.

That’s the whole point of probate. Nothing can be done with the estate’s assets until probate is granted. The executor can’t just sell stuff or give it away or distribute it until that time. Everything is basically frozen, for now.

Ah, ok, I figured it was something like that. That's shitty, seems like a long freeze period if the owner passed away in July.

[derekoconnell]

Yeah I thought it may not be possible. What I don't understand is that there must be a solution for the problem of "what do you do with an unregistered car during probate?" - you cannot park on City streets AFAIK (you cannot in BC). It is a very stupid system to have depreciating assets tied up for that long - especially a car which needs to be driven regularly - which is why I figured there must be some way to make this happen.

[tpl]

I suspect that moving the car to BC before Probate was a mistake.

[HeliDriver]

Yeah I thought it may not be possible. What I don't understand is that there must be a solution for the problem of "what do you do with an unregistered car during probate?" - you cannot park on City streets AFAIK (you cannot in BC). It is a very stupid system to have depreciating assets tied up for that long - especially a car which needs to be driven regularly - which is why I figured there must be some way to make this happen.

I believe the executor is allowed to do things that are necessary to maintain the estate’s assets during probate. Paying utility bills, keeping insurance up to date, etc. So keeping the car registered and insured (for theft or parking on the street) shouldn’t be a problem.

But, yeah, everything is supposed to remain as-is until probate is granted. Driving the car, and especially driving it to BC, was probably a mistake. Maybe you’ll just have to park it (on a private lot) for a while?

[ArticSteve]

Who has signing authority for the estate? Your aunt? If so, have her 'sell' the car to you for some nominal amount in Ontario, pay the tax (likely based on Blue Book) and have it transferred to your name in Ontario as 'unfit' (without a safety certificate). Then, take your 'unfit' Ontario ownership to the BC office and follow whatever the 'out of province' registration process in BC is.

At least that's the process I'd look into - but I am no expert on these things, so there may be some reason why what I outlined above doesn't work.

That’s the whole point of probate. Nothing can be done with the estate’s assets until probate is granted. The executor can’t just sell stuff or give it away or distribute it until that time. Everything is basically frozen, for now.

You are way off base on this.  With an executor and a will it's easy.

This link is for Ontario, but it looks the same for BC.  The OP might be able to get this done in BC. He should contact the BC transportation offices.

http://www.gilmoreandgilmore.com/2018/05/no-will-how-do-you-transfer-ownership-of-a-deceaseds-vehicles/

[HeliDriver]

^^ Your link is irrelevant. Right at the top of the page, it says “Intestacy and Vehicle Ownership.”

His grandfather had a will. Probate is already underway. Google probate.

[tenpenny]

From my experience as an executor, the job of the executor is to dispose of the assets according to the will.  The fact that it is in probate does not, in my experience, prevent the executor from acting.  But the executor should make sure they know what they are doing.


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[sailor723]

From my experience as an executor, the job of the executor is to dispose of the assets according to the will.  The fact that it is in probate does not, in my experience, prevent the executor from acting.  But the executor should make sure they know what they are doing.


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^This