Author Topic: our experience EV shopping  (Read 8278 times)

Offline Agiledood

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our experience EV shopping
« on: September 12, 2017, 10:15:54 am »
We're replacing our Mazda5 and Cherokee and planned on a new Tiguan, but ultimately decided to go electric (or plug-in hybrid). It's going to be our primary car (A3 convertible will be the fun car!) and worst case scenario is we'd rent something bigger for the one or two times a year when we go on longer trips if need be.

My wife and I started looking around and oddly enough, the front-runner so far is the C-Max Energi. The range is just enough for her daily commute and the interior space is enough for a family of 4, but the cargo area is almost as useless as the Cherokee! She needs to carry around a PA speaker that takes up the entire C-Max cargo area with the seats up. We thought it drove quite well, quiet and comfortable enough, but since it's on its way out, there's no adaptive cruise, lane keep assist or any other features other than parking sensors and a backup camera.

Volt: useless backseat, and terribly designed rear cargo area with a high liftover, and sunken floor. Having a flat, removable panel would help otherwise she'd break her back lifting the PA in and out of it.  I wanted to like this one since the EV range would more or less allow us to rarely use the gas engine, but the packaging is just terrible. The slope of the roof really cuts down on head room in the back and I guarantee my spacial-awareness challenged kids would concuss themselves daily getting in and out of it. We planned to drive it, but while the sales person was getting a plate, we changed our mind since it's just too small inside.

Pruis: not as bad as the Volt, but the Prime isn't available in Ontario yet and my wife can't get past the gimmicky interior. We didn't drive it either.

Bolt: We checked it out at the autoshow, but we couldn't find one near us to drive. Seems to have enough space for 95% of our driving needs. I remember the back seat feeling roomy and the cargo floor is lower than the Volt and I remember it had a false floor panel. Sales guy said it's about a 9 month wait.

We're probably going to check out the Plug and Drive EV discovery centre since they have most models but I was surprised to see how hard it is just to find one considering the hype. We're also considering the eGolf, A3 e-tron, Focus EV and Ioniq but all have multiple month wait times and you more or less have to order them and commit to buying without driving them.

I ran into a couple of people in a parking lot who have the Ioniq EV and it seems to be packaged much better than the Volt. Roofline isn't as swoopy and the cargo area is big enough, without having too high of a liftover. They said they're getting 250 KM on a charge, had a helluva time getting their rebate back, and don't have a 220V charger yet, but otherwise they love it because it feels like a normal car. They said the wait is about 3 - 4 months.

When I look at our actual spend on the Cherokee (payments, gas, maintenance) it doesn't completely rule out a Tesla but I'm not convinced I want a second mortgage, although our point of getting an EV isn't entirely rooted in 'saving money on gas'

Overall, with all the hype around EV's, I was disappointed with the current state of EV's here. I know the race is on for the glut of SUV EV's that are coming, but I'm guessing it'll easily be a couple of years before they're widely available.

2019 Mazda 3 GS-L, 2013 Ram 1500 and an EV that cost 5 times what my Mazda3 costs but is louder with a crappier interior.

Offline Agiledood

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2017, 12:16:09 pm »
What about the Kia Soul EV? I know nothing about it, just throwing it out there.

a friend has one, and says its been in the shop more than he's driven it. It's an option though, I forgot about it. 

The new Leaf looks promising, but it'll likely be spring before you can actually get one.

Offline me_2

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 12:49:00 pm »
I understand it can be a bit of frustration to shop for an EVs these days, you are in period between the 1st generation (100-150 e-km) and the second wave (200-300 e-km & more).

I spoke with an ex-Volt (1st gen) owner this week-end, and he loves his new Hyundai Ioniq EV. Others first gen EV moved to he bolt or holding TM3, waiting the e-Golf, etc, etc.

There will be a lot of new incomers on the next 3-4 years, keep your minds open (you already figured your personal transportation needs) et keep looking, trying and driving everything available or soon to be.
Gone but not forgotten in chronological order: 2019 Volt, 2013 Volt, 2014 Spark EV, 2012 Volt and many others before...

Offline Blueprint

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 08:30:48 am »
Not a hatchback, but the PHEV versions of the Sonata and Optima offer pretty impressive range, a useful trunk and a very roomy interior. One of these was my top pick for the TDI money IF the trade-in option had not been available.

I reviewed the Sonata a while back for Autos - 400km on 4 litres of gas:

http://www.autotrader.ca/expert/20160610/test-drive-2016-hyundai-sonata-phev-ultimate/



Other than that, the oft-promised Outlander PHEV is (finally?) coming to Canada soon. That looks like your best bet.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 08:32:57 am by Blueprint »
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Offline SKYMTL

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 09:15:18 am »
I'll throw this out there. 

2018 Volvo XC60 T8 eAWD?  Seems like it will get a good 30-40KM off electric alone, it will qualify for a pretty significant rebate and that 0-60 time of 4.9 seconds is pretty drool-worthy. 

Offline EV-Light

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 09:16:49 am »
Buy used! You can now get an i3 for lower 30s...Nissan Leafs are ridiculously cheap as well.

The C-Max is a great little minivan thing but is out of the door, will be replaced by a plug in  Escape in 2019.


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Offline OliverD

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 09:35:01 am »
Buy used! You can now get an i3 for lower 30s...

Or do what my coworker did and get one from the U.S. A broker got him one at auction for well under $20k USD. Once he gets it home and registered I think he's in it for low $20s.

Offline bye

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 01:50:27 am »
Not quite Tesla money and it's a big PHEV SUV, ~50km electric range, all wheel drive (two motors and one engine)
https://www.mitsubishi-motors.ca/en/vehicle/showroom/outlander-phev/2018/SUV/EV/Hatchback

Used CPO Tesla's run low $60K now, and likely to drop into next year.
I used this site to snag an S85 a few years ago:
https://ev-cpo.com/hunter/

The history shows 10 cars sold <$62K

Offline Allen

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2017, 10:09:06 am »
$62K gets you a nice new BMW, Mercedes,  Aud, Infiniti, or Lexus, not a 4 year old used golf cart  ;D

Offline Agiledood

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 03:27:27 pm »
We are leaning towards the C-Max Energi.

With Ford's employee pricing, and EV rebates, it's close to 12K off MSRP. We looked at the plugin sedans, but the liftover and overall trunk shape and space is too much of a pain for her to load her PA system in and out. It wouldn't fit in the back of the Fusion Energi at all!

If were weren't in the market now, I'd wait until next year for the Niro plugin, or the Outlander plugin.

We seriously considered a Model X after looking at our existing monthly car expenses, and the fact that we generally keep our main family car for 8-ish years. A Model X would run us about $150 more per month than what our overall expenses are right now.

My wife is picky. She wants something that sits higher up, uses no gas, costs less than $200, has 9,000,000 HP so she doesn't have to be annoyed taking off from the light, the space of a minivan with the footprint of a Smart Car, all safety features, good stereo and moonroof.  Since this magically unicorn of a car doesn't exist, 'sitting higher up' and having enough family space, plus space for her PA ended up being the highest priority items! She doesn't read these forums so I won't have to sleep on the lawn tonight!

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2017, 03:30:56 pm »
My wife is picky. She wants something that sits higher up, uses no gas, costs less than $200, has 9,000,000 HP so she doesn't have to be annoyed taking off from the light, the space of a minivan with the footprint of a Smart Car, all safety features, good stereo and moonroof.  Since this magically unicorn of a car doesn't exist, 'sitting higher up' and having enough family space, plus space for her PA ended up being the highest priority items! She doesn't read these forums so I won't have to sleep on the lawn tonight!

 :rofl: Join the club!

Offline johngenx

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2017, 08:47:12 pm »
2012 Leaf SVs can be had in Ontario and Quebec for $10K-ish now. That's tempting, but how the hell would I drive it home?   :rofl2:

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2017, 09:26:52 pm »
2012 Leaf SVs can be had in Ontario and Quebec for $10K-ish now. That's tempting, but how the hell would I drive it home?   :rofl2:
With this  :rofl2:
http://www.hybridcars.com/nomadic-powers-battery-toting-trailer-extends-range-video/

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2017, 10:04:58 pm »
Not a hatchback, but the PHEV versions of the Sonata and Optima offer pretty impressive range, a useful trunk and a very roomy interior. One of these was my top pick for the TDI money IF the trade-in option had not been available.

I reviewed the Sonata a while back for Autos - 400km on 4 litres of gas:

http://www.autotrader.ca/expert/20160610/test-drive-2016-hyundai-sonata-phev-ultimate/



Other than that, the oft-promised Outlander PHEV is (finally?) coming to Canada soon. That looks like your best bet.

I was also hoping to get one used next year but they are basically non existent in Alberta let alone a used one. 

Offline Agiledood

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2017, 08:58:26 am »
re: Outlander...this dealer says it'll be Jan - Mar 2018 and only 500 have been allocated to Canada. http://www.boisvertmitsubishi.ca/outlander-phev.aspx?lng=2

Offline me_2

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 10:29:20 am »
My wife is picky. She wants something that sits higher up, uses no gas, costs less than $200, has 9,000,000 HP so she doesn't have to be annoyed taking off from the light, the space of a minivan with the footprint of a Smart Car, all safety features, good stereo and moonroof.  Since this magically unicorn of a car doesn't exist, 'sitting higher up' and having enough family space, plus space for her PA ended up being the highest priority items! She doesn't read these forums so I won't have to sleep on the lawn tonight!

If the Bolt EV an option, look for reservation cancellation that pop on dealers FB sometime...

It does not check all of "requirement" on your wife's list but is the FCA Pacifica Hybrid (PHEV) a potential candidate?
https://www.chrysler.ca/en/pacificahybrid/overview
http://www.autos.ca/hybrids/preview-2017-chrysler-pacifica-hybrid/
http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/expert/20161115/first-drive-2017-chrysler-pacifica-hybrid/

Offline Agiledood

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 11:15:00 am »
My wife is picky. She wants something that sits higher up, uses no gas, costs less than $200, has 9,000,000 HP so she doesn't have to be annoyed taking off from the light, the space of a minivan with the footprint of a Smart Car, all safety features, good stereo and moonroof.  Since this magically unicorn of a car doesn't exist, 'sitting higher up' and having enough family space, plus space for her PA ended up being the highest priority items! She doesn't read these forums so I won't have to sleep on the lawn tonight!

If the Bolt EV an option, look for reservation cancellation that pop on dealers FB sometime...

It does not check all of "requirement" on your wife's list but is the FCA Pacifica Hybrid (PHEV) a potential candidate?
https://www.chrysler.ca/en/pacificahybrid/overview
http://www.autos.ca/hybrids/preview-2017-chrysler-pacifica-hybrid/
http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/expert/20161115/first-drive-2017-chrysler-pacifica-hybrid/

we talked about that one too, at $48K (after rebates) it's more than we want to spend.

Offline See3PeeO

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2017, 02:33:33 pm »
I’ve got a small deposit down to hold one of the first Honda Clarity plug in hybrids.  Mid size, supposedly similar to the Accord size and 75 km electric only range works for me.

Offline Agiledood

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2017, 02:34:13 pm »
Well, we are now the proud owners of a C-Max Energi Titanium. The deciding factors were the interior space (other than cargo room), the close to 900 KM range, and the electric range being enough to get my wife back and forth to work. We figure it'll work fine as a primary family car, and when the lease is up on my A3, I'll replace it with a fully electric car.

The Cherokee was sitting at 11.7 L when we traded it in, after 60km of driving so far the C-Max is sitting at 0.7L/100KM only because I gunned it to see what it would take to have the gas engine kick in while in full EV mode!

« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 02:36:04 pm by Agiledood »

Online Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: our experience EV shopping
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2017, 02:58:20 pm »
Nice.  What's the e-range on it?  How much did it cost?  How long will it take to charge?