Topic: Auto Tech: Lighting 101

[Autos_Editor]

Everything you ever wanted to know about lighting.
Read More...

[Danno001]

Problem with these newer energy efficient lighting systems is that they don't warm up enough to clear the ice and snow build up off the headlights or tail lights.

Example is this winter road test

http://www.autos.ca/car-test-drives/northern-exposure-santa-fe-vs-snowstorm/

'For some reason, the light output diminishes notably when there’s even a small amount of snow or ice on the lenses—and there’s no washer system."

BTW, the Euro Santa Fes have washer systems.

[tpl]

In Euroland I think it is a rule that all cars with Xenon lights ( and probably LED as well) have to have headlight washers.


But as it is not a rule in NA cars often don't have them...for example my GTI Mk V did not although the cutouts in the front bumper were there. I always thought it was a California fanboi focus group objected to having sprays of stuff on their paint but it may have been some people objected to the extra use of washer fluid.

[mlin32]

In Euroland I think it is a rule that all cars with Xenon lights ( and probably LED as well) have to have headlight washers.

Just for Xenons. Not needed for LED; my Ford Mondeo didn't have headlamp washers with the Intelligent LED system.

[mixmanmash]

In Euroland I think it is a rule that all cars with Xenon lights ( and probably LED as well) have to have headlight washers.


But as it is not a rule in NA cars often don't have them...for example my GTI Mk V did not although the cutouts in the front bumper were there. I always thought it was a California fanboi focus group objected to having sprays of stuff on their paint but it may have been some people objected to the extra use of washer fluid.

Easily solved.  Have a seperate button for activating the headlamp washers.  I thought cars that have them did this anyways.  My 300ZX has a seperate button for headlamp washers.  Same with my coworkers MDX and my dad's E-Class.

[tpl]

Audis and BMWs that I have had it has been automatic.   The first and then every 5th or 10th time the winscreen washers are used the headlights get washed as well.  I agree a separate button would be better.

[dave_b]

I feel compelled to comment on the last couple of paragraphs. Please do not recommend HID drop in kits into a halogen assembly. It is straight up illegal and dangerous. Sadly, this is not the first time I have seen this "advice" on this otherwise fantastic and professional site.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

Dan Stern is an industry expert, and this write up succinctly sums up the situation. Once you change the light source, you have basically invalidated all of the optical engineering of the assembly. Assemblies designed for halogen bulbs, should only use the halogen bulb around which they are designed. Contrary to what is stated in the autos.ca article, no halogen optics will create an acceptable beam pattern with a drop in HID capsule. This includes halogen projectors. While the projector optics will still create a sharp cut-off regardless of light source, the distribution of light under the cutoff will not meet CFMVSS108, which is the federal safety standard to which headlamps are designed.

From the link I posted. "This article will never go out of date, because the problems with HID kits are conceptual problems, not problems of implementation. Therefore, they cannot be overcome by additional research and development, any more than someone could develop a way for you to put on somebody else's eyeglasses and see correctly."

[mixmanmash]

I feel compelled to comment on the last couple of paragraphs. Please do not recommend HID drop in kits into a halogen assembly. It is straight up illegal and dangerous.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

Dan Stern is an industry expert, and this write up succinctly sums up the situation. Once you change the light source, you have basically invalidated all of the optical engineering of the assembly. Assemblies designed for halogen bulbs, should only use the halogen bulb around which they are designed. Contrary to what is stated in the article, no halogen optics will create an acceptable beam pattern with a drop in HID capsule. This includes halogen projectors. While the projector optics will still create a sharp cut-off regardless of light source, the distribution of light under the cutoff will not meet CFMVSS108, which is the federal safety standard to which headlamps are designed.

From the article. "This article will never go out of date, because the problems with HID kits are conceptual problems, not problems of implementation. Therefore, they cannot be overcome by additional research and development, any more than someone could develop a way for you to put on somebody else's eyeglasses and see correctly."

This.

However, I have seen people retrofit the HID projector optics into their existing headlamps, making it the correct way to do a HID kit.  However, it is a ton of work.

[johngenx]

Not sure about today, but on the MBs we owned, it cleaned the headlamps if you used the washer when the headlamps were on.  I didn't mind it at all.

I think reflector design is much more important than bulb type.  I've driven behind HIDs that were worthless and halogens that were amazing.

[dave_b]

I think reflector design is much more important than bulb type.  I've driven behind HIDs that were worthless and halogens that were amazing.

This is true, a bad design around a good lightsource won't make a good headlight. HIDs generally have a reputation of being better because for the most part they are, because they are a premium feature on most cars. So, they should be! But its not always the case.

That being said, there have been some truly terrible halogen bulb designs, which made designing good optics difficult (9003 bulb with 2 transverse filaments comes to mind). And, since all of our old beaters run halogen lamps, its easy to identify them as more prone to being crap. But in today's day and age, halogen light sources such as H1, H7, and HIR1 and HIR2 can power some excellent headlamps.

Another issue that affects halogens is the bulb itself. Long life bulbs have a thicker, less precise filament which lasts a long time, but puts out less light and a less focused beam. High quality "+" bulbs such as Phillips xtreme vision have a higher quality, higher luminescence  filament. These put out more light and a more focused beam (due to the higher precision of the filament manufacture) at the expense of bulb life. I personally always run the highest rated legal bulb for my car.  Replacing bulbs is a fair trade off for the best legal output my car can generate.

Note: Silverstars (or any blue tinted bulb) are NOT an upgrade. More excellent reading here. http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/good/good.html

[JohnnyMac]

My Golf R comes with headlight washers.  It has HID headlights and LED markers.  It sprays when you use the wipers and headlights are on as well as when you use the washer spray for the windsheild.  I've found the difference between my R and the Santa Fe (projector halogens) is night and day.  The R's are far superior with bright crisp white light.  I may need to upgrade the bulbs in the Santa Fe soon though, and that'll definitely make a difference.

[redman]

LED lights in particular seem bright at the bulb but the light output does not seem as make the distance vs halogen lights I found.
Could be that more care must be taken with reflectors, specific to LED bulbs.

Street light that have been changed in my neighborhood are bright at source (bulb hard to look at) but do not reflect much light to ground.

The LED lights seems better suited as a "be seen" rather than a guide light.

Highend flashlight companies have seemed to figure this out with either better "cree" type bulbs and better reflectors than many automotive lighting groups.

[Gurgie]

In Euroland I think it is a rule that all cars with Xenon lights ( and probably LED as well) have to have headlight washers.


But as it is not a rule in NA cars often don't have them...for example my GTI Mk V did not although the cutouts in the front bumper were there. I always thought it was a California fanboi focus group objected to having sprays of stuff on their paint but it may have been some people objected to the extra use of washer fluid.

Easily solved.  Have a seperate button for activating the headlamp washers.  I thought cars that have them did this anyways.  My 300ZX has a seperate button for headlamp washers.  Same with my coworkers MDX and my dad's E-Class.

My 1986 Porsche has a separate button for the headlamp washers... not rocket science... 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I feel compelled to comment on the last couple of paragraphs. Please do not recommend HID drop in kits into a halogen assembly. It is straight up illegal and dangerous. Sadly, this is not the first time I have seen this "advice" on this otherwise fantastic and professional site.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

Dan Stern is an industry expert, and this write up succinctly sums up the situation. Once you change the light source, you have basically invalidated all of the optical engineering of the assembly. Assemblies designed for halogen bulbs, should only use the halogen bulb around which they are designed. Contrary to what is stated in the autos.ca article, no halogen optics will create an acceptable beam pattern with a drop in HID capsule. This includes halogen projectors. While the projector optics will still create a sharp cut-off regardless of light source, the distribution of light under the cutoff will not meet CFMVSS108, which is the federal safety standard to which headlamps are designed.

From the link I posted. "This article will never go out of date, because the problems with HID kits are conceptual problems, not problems of implementation. Therefore, they cannot be overcome by additional research and development, any more than someone could develop a way for you to put on somebody else's eyeglasses and see correctly."

[tooscoops]

i drive a hilly, twisty road home in the evenings, and i am sometimes behind some more upscale cars... i find it funny watching them lose their light due to it being aimed so directly when they go down hills or any other sharp maneuver.

some of the new tech is great, but it seems like to do led/hid right, it would need to have a lot more going for it like the adaptive lighting mentioned... and to me, to increase the lights efficiency by making the whole system less efficient and complicated is backwards...

looks cooler though, no doubt. but i think for headlights, adapting and improving what we know works is probably the smarter choice...

[johngenx]

I think the best headlights I've driven behind in a while are the LEDs in the new Corolla.  The colour is good, the pattern is excellent, and overall I found them easier on the eyes (for the driver and cars around us) than the HIDs I've tried.  I think HIDS will be gone soon, with all cars moving to LEDs in the next little while.

[mixmanmash]

I think the best headlights I've driven behind in a while are the LEDs in the new Corolla.  The colour is good, the pattern is excellent, and overall I found them easier on the eyes (for the driver and cars around us) than the HIDs I've tried.  I think HIDS will be gone soon, with all cars moving to LEDs in the next little while.

I think you are right on this. 

[Loudpedal]

Problem with these newer energy efficient lighting systems is that they don't warm up enough to clear the ice and snow build up off the headlights or tail lights.

Example is this winter road test

http://www.autos.ca/car-test-drives/northern-exposure-santa-fe-vs-snowstorm/

'For some reason, the light output diminishes notably when there’s even a small amount of snow or ice on the lenses—and there’s no washer system."

BTW, the Euro Santa Fes have washer systems.

Agree x2.    Trips to Ottawa and Montreal from GTA on snowy nights...LED tail lights are visible at the start and some where mid-trip they become covered over with snow, which does not melt.   I'm surprised this fact has not caught the attention of some transportation body somewhere in the world.   

[mixmanmash]

Problem with these newer energy efficient lighting systems is that they don't warm up enough to clear the ice and snow build up off the headlights or tail lights.

Example is this winter road test

http://www.autos.ca/car-test-drives/northern-exposure-santa-fe-vs-snowstorm/

'For some reason, the light output diminishes notably when there’s even a small amount of snow or ice on the lenses—and there’s no washer system."

BTW, the Euro Santa Fes have washer systems.

Agree x2.    Trips to Ottawa and Montreal from GTA on snowy nights...LED tail lights are visible at the start and some where mid-trip they become covered over with snow, which does not melt.   I'm surprised this fact has not caught the attention of some transportation body somewhere in the world.

My normal tail lights would get covered with snow on a drive...   Even normal bulbs for tail lights generate such little heat because they are low wattage (I.e. 5W).

[mlin32]

It sounds lovely for lights to create a lot of heat, but at the opposite end of the spectrum, people living in warmer climates don't want overheating issues 

As far as I'm concerned, only the halogen-based rear foglights are of high-wattage to burn thru grime and snow (newer ones are LED too) . And really, they're not intended to be switched on for a long time either, only when visibility falls below 100m.