Author Topic: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance  (Read 14324 times)

Northernridge

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2014, 12:23:43 pm »
^^And doesn't that speak to outlook on life as much as anything else? The base premise is that life is fun and it comes in three flavours.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2014, 03:03:11 pm »
You discuss mountaineering as though death is literally always hanging over your head.  If this is not hyperbole, perhaps you should begin each excursion, if you do not already, by candidly saying to your wife and daughter "I might not be back but I am okay with that b/c my excursions rank in priority to being there for you". 

I am not deliberately trying to be critical but this is how I would interpret it if you were my spouse or father.

While we don't do anything as challenging or dangerous as John does we do spend some time in areas where one wrong move/decision could kill you. We accept these risks going in but at the same time, we do everything we can to avoid dying.

We have had giant boulders fall close to us, walked out of a flash flood and walk along sections where if you slipped its a not fun ride 2,000 feet to the bottom. My buddy had his wife blown over by the wind one day, lucky she was on a flat section and not the side where she would have fallen off the mountain.

I don't think any of us are saying being in the wilderness is more important than our family.






Offline blotter

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2014, 03:30:11 pm »
Quote
. My buddy had his wife blown over by the wind one day, lucky she was on a flat section and not the side where she would have fallen off the mountain.

we abandoned our hike up Mt Washington due to winds.   I NEVER would have expect wind to have such an impact.  I was fine, but as we reached the treeline, my wife became totally freaked out by a couple of gusts that nearly pushed her off some rock.   Turning back killed me at the time but it was the right thing to do.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2014, 05:44:50 pm »
Well, it's tough to know how close you came to getting the chop, without actually getting it.  But...

Ascending the Athabasca Glacier on the way to the neve of the Columbia Icefields a serac (huge block of ice) about the size of an office building came off of Mt. Snowdome and obliterated our track - where we'd  been just a couple minutes prior.  We got peppered with debris, but otherwise, not a scratch.  Percentage?  Can't tell?  Feeling?  200bpm heart rate.

On Mt. Andromeda, we had some surprises ascending the face, with ice where we'd hoped there'd be snow - oh well.  Six hours of ice climbing instead of three hours of snow climbing.  Then as we traversed the ridge to get to the descent route, our blue-bird day turned into a nasty white-out.  We now had to grope our way along a ridge barely 40cm wide in many places.  Hours of careful stepping finally got us to where we'd begin our rappels.  But the storm had buried the bolts that we'd hoped to use - placed there by Parks for the safety of climbers.  We dug bu couldn't find them.  Finally, with hypothermia a reality, I placed two pitons in a crack.  They could be lifted out with my fingers in the vertical plane, but seemed to hold well enough when loaded with a down-pull.  No one wanted to go first.  Luckily they held and we were able to get down.  How close was that?  Pretty close, but again, it's tough to know.  During the 30 hours we were on the go that "day" there were plenty of opportunities for things to go sideways fast.

On a peak in northern Banff I was ice climbing over an overhanging bulge.  I hate overhangs, with my asymmetrical arm strength, I usually leave leading those areas to my buds.  Today, I'm on the sharp end of the rope and it's overhanging.  For F-cks Sake.  I think back to almost exactly a year prior, in the same place, where we didn't get past this point thanks to a the body of a falling climbing crashing past us as we rounded the shoulder to this spot.  We rapped to where he'd landed expecting to find a body, but instead two multiple compound leg fractures and a while lot of minor injuries.  The remainder of our day and a bunch of the night was spent in a rescue.  Luckily today we're the only ones out.  I've got a screw into the ice at the base of the bulge and I'm getting near the top.  Hey!  Feels good.  I hang from my right ice tool and shake out my left arm.  Suddenly I'm airborne.  OH SH!T!!!!  The rope catches the screw and the luckily the screw holds and then the rope stretches.  SMASH.  I crash into the ice with my side.  I'm not only alive, I don't even seem too badly hurt.  As I'm gathering myself and doing an inventory of bones, it's feeling very wet inside my right boot.  My crampon front point impaled my calf when I hit, and now I'm bleeding.  I still feel incredibly lucky, but the day is over.

The tough ones to assess are ski lines.  It's impossible to know how close it was to an avalanche.  I've skied those lines that are 35-40 degrees (prime avalanche angle is 38) and it's probably one of the riskier things we do based on stats.  Many more skiers are killed than climbers.

So, it's tough to know just how close is close, but it's sure a lot more than some other things I do.  I could type all day with not dissimilar examples.  (electrical storms, crevasse falls, solo rock climbing, etc)

So, this is an interesting point...

You discuss mountaineering as though death is literally always hanging over your head.  If this is not hyperbole, perhaps you should begin each excursion, if you do not already, by candidly saying to your wife and daughter "I might not be back but I am okay with that b/c my excursions rank in priority to being there for you". 

I never leave thinking "well, this is it."  But, the conversation you quote is probably there, just unspoken.  It's a very, very difficult thing to describe.  It's not that one thing is more important than another - it's that they all are.  Time with my family is very important, but so is the time I spend climbing and skiing.  I can't imagine not having either.  My wife has a very difficult time understanding, my daughter less so as she feels a lot of the same pull that I do.  But, maybe some clarity (or not!) will come if we go back over 30 years.

The first time my wife "met" me was a September day at our high school.  I was riding an obnoxiously loud four cylinder performance bike and rode through the school parking lot and onto the sidewalk, down the path, and parked by the entrance to the school.  While the boys in our school were jocks with buzz cuts, I had waist length hair and a scraggy beard.  The previous year I'd been suspended 13 times for mostly fighting.  I had a shady reputation and most it was well deserved.  By the time we were married, she knew not only that I did dangerous things, she also knew it wasn't a "teenager phase" or something I'd "grow out of."  It was interwoven into my being.  She came to my races - motocross and superbike - and watched as I flirted with disaster.  She watched me rag-doll down the track at 210 km/h and be taken off in an ambulance.  She's nursed me though broken bones and dislocations and other injuries caused by motorcycles, cars, and climbing/skiing.

Many non-risk-taking spouses of risk takers have wondered what it is that makes them endure the sleepless nights and worry and potential loss of their loved one, and they don't seem to be able to come up with real reasons other than "he/she is just the one."

One of my biggest personal losses came quite some years ago, and his widow remarried an accountant, hoping to escape those worrisome days and nights. The guy was awesome - accepting of her children, super reliable, liked to BBQ for thrills, and doted on her.  And she has since divorced him and hubby #3 is a climber.
 

Northernridge

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2014, 05:56:33 pm »
In terms of this risk thing and family/marriage...we are who we are and our sig-others have to embrace that or be gone. johngenx talks about climbing as though he's hardwired for it (as opposed to a fanciful hobby). Imagine if his spouse forbid it or he felt he had to quit out of guilt – how would that be good for anybody? Who would want to be married to someone who sought to suppress their essence and not chase their dreams? It's hard for me to begrudge the married/parent 10s who've met a bad ending for being who they were.

Offline Snowman

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2014, 05:14:59 pm »
A special thanks to Turbo Bob for that advanced decent trail that put us into 100% today  :P

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2014, 05:54:02 pm »
A special thanks to Turbo Bob for that advanced decent trail that put us into 100% today  :P

Ha ha, yes that trail was pretty scary, not on John's scale, but sure for us!  Rear brake fully on, still sliding, front brake on a little.... over the wooden bit covered in ice, round the berm, sliding all the way down ha ha!


Choosing a car based on reliability is like choosing a wife based solely because she is punctual. There is more to it than that...

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2014, 12:05:59 pm »
Here is a climb for JohnGenx.   Difficult to get to, needs a space suit but...you'd be the first.  1Km high cliff on that comet  Churyumov–Gerasimenko

The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2014, 12:12:23 pm »
The low gravity would be sweet

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2014, 12:22:27 pm »
Yeah, one gentle jump and you'd be there.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2014, 01:53:10 pm »
Im a 1....maybe a 2. Im very risk averse when it comes to activities done in far flung places with no easy access to trained medical assistance. Falling into a crevass or being swept over a cliff by an avalanche....no, Im good bro, how about a rousing game of Wii golf??
Lighten up Francis.....

Offline blotter

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #71 on: December 24, 2014, 10:08:46 am »
I draw the line at Base Jumping

everything else... i'm willing to try  ;D

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #72 on: December 24, 2014, 11:38:52 am »
^^ You just got me thinking... title of the thread is "Sensation seeking... and risk tolerance." Just occurred to me that you can have the one without the other.

I went bungee jumping a few years ago and it was an awesome experience. A reputable outfit, so I'm sure the actual risk was minimal, but the jump itself was an eye opener. You think it will just be an adrenaline rush, and it is, but I was amazed to hear a voice from somewhere back in my primal lizard brain screaming "You're going to die!!!!" It was just pure instinct, terror and adrenaline. :)

I think roller coasters and the other crazy rides they have these days probably fall into that category, too. And skydiving, but the actual risk for that is not insignificant.

edit: okay, maybe not skydiving. Definitely actual risk involved there.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 12:26:59 pm by HeliDriver »

Offline Snowman

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Offline quadzilla

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Offline Brig

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Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2015, 01:16:16 pm »
I went bungee jumping a few years ago and it was an awesome experience. A reputable outfit, so I'm sure the actual risk was minimal, but the jump itself was an eye opener. You think it will just be an adrenaline rush, and it is, but I was amazed to hear a voice from somewhere back in my primal lizard brain screaming "You're going to die!!!!" It was just pure instinct, terror and adrenaline. :)

I think roller coasters and the other crazy rides they have these days probably fall into that category, too. And skydiving, but the actual risk for that is not insignificant.

edit: okay, maybe not skydiving. Definitely actual risk involved there.

Heh, when I did bungee jumping I felt exactly the same way. 'I'm going to die' and jumped anyway. The worst part is it still felt that way as I accelerated towards the rocks and trees. Once the resistance of the rope is felt, no problem. But that first bit is like a suicide simulator.

Parachuting on the other hand was much less scary as the ground is so far away. The worst part is the anticipation. Free fall in tandem feels like a long dive into water, and static line is mostly just floating along.

Offline johngenx

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Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2015, 02:08:20 pm »
Been following the free climb of the Dawn Wall. What a rock climbing accomplishment. Amazing. I've only met Caldwell once when he was here working on Mt Louis with Sonnie Trotter. These high level rock-jocks are serious athletes. They train like hell, follow strict diets, and push themselves beyond what we thought humans were capable of in terms of this type of climbing.


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Offline Brig

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2015, 02:50:21 pm »
Been following the free climb of the Dawn Wall. What a rock climbing accomplishment. Amazing. I've only met Caldwell once when he was here working on Mt Louis with Sonnie Trotter. These high level rock-jocks are serious athletes. They train like hell, follow strict diets, and push themselves beyond what we thought humans were capable of in terms of this type of climbing.

So, how does one poop when suspended from a mountain for 19 days? 

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Re: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2015, 03:14:33 pm »
People tough enough to do that probably poop square, like a wombat.

Either that or some diamond-like substance