Topic: Comparison Test: 2015 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 versus 2015 Lexus GS 350 AWD

[Northernridge]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

[whaddaiknow]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

I would say attention to every minute detail that goes into both engineering, tolerances, and manufacturing process. I would also say the overall professional level of the Lexus workforce is higher with a higher pay grade - it is considered a privilege and a sign of professional recognition to move to a Lexus plant within Toyota. All (except RX) Lexus models are made in Japan with higher labour (and consequently shipping + import duties) costs.

Regardless of all of the above, I am pretty sure the Lexus SRP is well padded.

[Northernridge]

Greed.  Simple greed.

That does nothing to explain where the $20k is...or explain anything else actually. Do you think Hyundai is a benevolent company relative to Toyota?

[Northernridge]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

I would say attention to every minute detail that goes into both engineering, tolerances, and manufacturing process. I would also say the overall professional level of the Lexus workforce is higher with a higher pay grade - it is considered a privilege and a sign of professional recognition to move to a Lexus plant within Toyota. All (except RX) Lexus models are made in Japan with higher labour (and consequently shipping + import duties) costs.

Regardless of all of the above, I am pretty sure the Lexus SRP is well padded.

I like this angle...as a country with an expensive workforce relative to say...Mexico. What do we think of paying more for a car to cover its higher cost of labour?

[Fobroader]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

Thats my main issue, there is no way you are going to convince me that the Lexus is worth an extra $20K for any reason. Its not like its got twice the power,gets twice the mileage, has some advanced features that Hyundai can't even begin to explain or somehow is built $20k better. Even the badge, its a Lexus, this isn't a Maybach or something.

[CSH]

I dont think there is a significant difference in the labor rates between Korea and Japan

[Northernridge]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

Thats my main issue, there is no way you are going to convince me that the Lexus is worth an extra $20K for any reason. Its not like its got twice the power,gets twice the mileage, has some advanced features that Hyundai can't even begin to explain or somehow is built $20k better. Even the badge, its a Lexus, this isn't a Maybach or something.

I'm not arguing that it's worth $20k more, I'm asking where that money is.

[CanuckS2K]

I haven't driven either, but based on looks and value alone, I'd be more likely to end up with the Genesis in my driveway.  I personally don't care what symbol is on the hood my car, so I wouldn't have any issues whatsoever having a Hyundai in my driveway.  A V8 Genesis for a little cheaper than the V6 GS would be hard for me to pass up.  But of course I'd have to drive both and decide for myself. 

[Snowman]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

Thats my main issue, there is no way you are going to convince me that the Lexus is worth an extra $20K for any reason. Its not like its got twice the power,gets twice the mileage, has some advanced features that Hyundai can't even begin to explain or somehow is built $20k better. Even the badge, its a Lexus, this isn't a Maybach or something.

I'm not arguing that it's worth $20k more, I'm asking where that money is.

A would expect that some of that money is stuff under the skin.

Agreed, got that from TB.

[Fobroader]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

Thats my main issue, there is no way you are going to convince me that the Lexus is worth an extra $20K for any reason. Its not like its got twice the power,gets twice the mileage, has some advanced features that Hyundai can't even begin to explain or somehow is built $20k better. Even the badge, its a Lexus, this isn't a Maybach or something.

I'm not arguing that it's worth $20k more, I'm asking where that money is.

A would expect that some of that money is stuff under the skin.

Like what, Lexus uses better plastics, hardware or wire??

[Snowman]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

Thats my main issue, there is no way you are going to convince me that the Lexus is worth an extra $20K for any reason. Its not like its got twice the power,gets twice the mileage, has some advanced features that Hyundai can't even begin to explain or somehow is built $20k better. Even the badge, its a Lexus, this isn't a Maybach or something.

I'm not arguing that it's worth $20k more, I'm asking where that money is.

A would expect that some of that money is stuff under the skin.

Like what, Lexus uses better plastics, hardware or wire??

Put both up on a hoist.

[Fobroader]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

Thats my main issue, there is no way you are going to convince me that the Lexus is worth an extra $20K for any reason. Its not like its got twice the power,gets twice the mileage, has some advanced features that Hyundai can't even begin to explain or somehow is built $20k better. Even the badge, its a Lexus, this isn't a Maybach or something.

I'm not arguing that it's worth $20k more, I'm asking where that money is.

A would expect that some of that money is stuff under the skin.

Like what, Lexus uses better plastics, hardware or wire??

Put both up on a hoist.

I would love to.....

[HeliDriver]

^ yeah, could be stuff like forged alloy suspension arms vs. stamped steel. Big increase in cost for small improvement in unsprung weight and suspension feel. May or may not be worth the extra cost for some buyers.

Also stuff like R&D budgets. And there must be a fair bit of LF-A losses buried in each regular Lexus. 

[Fobroader]

^ yeah, could be stuff like forged alloy suspension arms vs. stamped steel. Big increase in cost for small improvement in unsprung weight and suspension feel. May or may not be worth the extra cost for some buyers.

Also stuff like R&D budgets. And there must be a fair bit of LF-A losses buried in each regular Lexus. 

Stuff like that I would pay for, exotic metal bits, large brakes, LSDs, strengthening crossbraces.....actual things.

[CanuckS2K]

Agree 100% plus Lexus is a Japanese luxury brand while the Gensesis is struggling with identity because it is a mainstream brand regardless of how good it the car is. Hyundai desperately needs a luxury brand.

Couldn't disagree more with this. Luxury brands/sub-brands/psuedo brands are a thing invented to suit hyper-image-conscious Americans. Lincoln, Acura, Mercury, Buick are all examples of how poorly the concept performs. Any decent marketing team can transform a brand's image when backed by decent product - so a new "brand" is a cynical and needless exercise.

Hilarious that the same people who claim they "never buy anything to impress anyone" also think they need to have a "luxury brand" on the badge of their car..... 

But you're still assuming that people buy luxury items ONLY to impress people!  Talking about painting everyone with the same brush!  Perhaps.......just perhaps that some folks can afford to purchase a luxury item AND they are only purchasing it because they like it.  Wow, what a concept!

Like I mentioned in a previous post, I'd more than likely end up with the Hyundai here if I were choose between the two with money out of my own pocket. 

[JacobBlack]

But you're still assuming that people buy luxury items ONLY to impress people!  Talking about painting everyone with the same brush!  Perhaps.......just perhaps that some folks can afford to purchase a luxury item AND they are only purchasing it because they like it.  Wow, what a concept!

If the Genesis is the exact same car, but the only difference is between it being called a "Hyundai" or a "LuxoKorea" - which is what we're talking about here, then YES, the brand is the thing that someone is buying it for, and that IS about impressing people. If you like something and it's just for you, then the name should not matter.

[CanuckS2K]

     ^ FFS man, I give up with you.  You win, everyone that purchases a certain brand is all about impressing someone else. 

[Fobroader]

But you're still assuming that people buy luxury items ONLY to impress people!  Talking about painting everyone with the same brush!  Perhaps.......just perhaps that some folks can afford to purchase a luxury item AND they are only purchasing it because they like it.  Wow, what a concept!

If the Genesis is the exact same car, but the only difference is between it being called a "Hyundai" or a "LuxoKorea" - which is what we're talking about here, then YES, the brand is the thing that someone is buying it for, and that IS about impressing people. If you like something and it's just for you, then the name should not matter.

How do you know that is the only reason they bought the Lexus, maybe they liked it better. You are assuming that someone buys a Lexus over Hyundai just for the badge....but really, a Lexus isn't that impressive. Sure, a Lambo with a neon orange paintjob and a licence plate that read "BTRTHNU" is a thing to impress others.

[Fobroader]

Guys, I'm not talking about Lexus vs Genesis - you're totally right, that is very, very much about a lot of different things.
I'm talking about someone who WOULD buy a Hyundai Genesis, but only if it wasn't called a Hyundai.

You know what, more power to their ignorance. If its their dollars paying for their car, who are we to say its wrong. Im 100% in the Genesis camp, I do not think that Lexus can make the case for the over and above without going into a brand cachet argument.

[Northernridge]

I'd argue that every single thing we buy that is anything beyond the minimum required to get the task done is some form of self-expression...basically, we're trying to impress ourselves. Which is worse than trying to impress others...and the entire reason that marketing works. Thank Christ.

Human nature...embrace it and profit from it.