Topic: Test Drive: 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP

[redman]

Without hijacking and making this a FWD vs RWD thread, I find that today's FWD vehicles have massive power and in a panic situation without any traction control lead to heavy plow and loss of steering control.
That being said vehicles now all come with some sort of stability control mitigating poor driver decision. So it comes down to how recent the vehicle, controls on vehicles and driver expertise.

[Fobroader]

Without hijacking and making this a FWD vs RWD thread, I find that today's FWD vehicles have massive power and in a panic situation without any traction control lead to heavy plow and loss of steering control.
That being said vehicles now all come with some sort of stability control mitigating poor driver decision. So it comes down to how recent the vehicle, controls on vehicles and driver expertise.

Someone decided that understeer is "safe" and thats what the litigious world of today demands.

[opg210]

Without hijacking and making this a FWD vs RWD thread, I find that today's FWD vehicles have massive power and in a panic situation without any traction control lead to heavy plow and loss of steering control.
That being said vehicles now all come with some sort of stability control mitigating poor driver decision. So it comes down to how recent the vehicle, controls on vehicles and driver expertise.

Fair enough and a good point. With all the stability/electronic controls it's odd to think of driving a modern car and just doing all the controlling yourself...for better or worse. And I suppose though many of us (esp on these boards) enjoy the pure feel of controlling a vehicle, and who doesn't enjoy sliding a car on a snowy road, as winter rolls around it is continually shocking to see how poorly a lot of people drive. If those electronic aids keep them from plowing into me I guess I should be happy about that.

[Erik]

Without hijacking and making this a FWD vs RWD thread, I find that today's FWD vehicles have massive power and in a panic situation without any traction control lead to heavy plow and loss of steering control.
That being said vehicles now all come with some sort of stability control mitigating poor driver decision. So it comes down to how recent the vehicle, controls on vehicles and driver expertise.

Someone decided that understeer is "safe" and thats what the litigious world of today demands.

It is safe. A car starts plowing, you take your foot off the gas, weight transfers to the front and the understeer goes away. Do that in a rwd car oversteering, and you head backwards into the bushes.

[Fobroader]

Without hijacking and making this a FWD vs RWD thread, I find that today's FWD vehicles have massive power and in a panic situation without any traction control lead to heavy plow and loss of steering control.
That being said vehicles now all come with some sort of stability control mitigating poor driver decision. So it comes down to how recent the vehicle, controls on vehicles and driver expertise.

Fair enough and a good point. With all the stability/electronic controls it's odd to think of driving a modern car and just doing all the controlling yourself...for better or worse. And I suppose though many of us (esp on these boards) enjoy the pure feel of controlling a vehicle, and who doesn't enjoy sliding a car on a snowy road, as winter rolls around it is continually shocking to see how poorly a lot of people drive. If those electronic aids keep them from plowing into me I guess I should be happy about that.

With the level of "talent" I see after every snowfall around here, the electronic nannies are a godsend to some people. I agree, if it keeps their car out of my car, Im happy. Just wish some of the aids had an off switch.

[cruzzer]

I agree the Civic Si HFP coupe looks better without the skirts and the red floor mats do indeed suck. 8.4l/100km though is pretty impressive as it doesn't sound at all like the Si was driven with an eye on the fuel gauge. I agree too that the HFP suspension mods should just be part of what the Si is and not something added on for $3k. The 2013 Si should be interesting to see, hopefully Honda has 'done the right thing'. We've owned an Accord, three Civics and an EL. I can't remember paying for a single repair beyond brakes and tires. We live in a very snowy, mountainous part of BC and while we love our Sube in the worst driving, I'll add my vote to FWD in snow over RWD. I've pushed way too many friends, strangers and neighbours out of snowbanks to fall for that line. Sorry.

[opg210]

My dads Aerostar with all seasons turned me into a backroad Tommi Makkinen 

Ha! almost missed that. Isn't that the truth. Those big boats were fun on a gravel road. Another great day was going out on a wet hay field one fall morning with my friend when it was covered with dew, in the GM half ton with no weight in the back. We put on about 5 miles, almost all sideways...ah those were the days...

[Erik]

I had an 89 Aerostar with the 3.0 and a 5 speed manual. Actually had some fun with that.

[Fobroader]

I had an 89 Aerostar with the 3.0 and a 5 speed manual. Actually had some fun with that.

Ohhh, 5 spd....sporty 

[Erik]

I had an 89 Aerostar with the 3.0 and a 5 speed manual. Actually had some fun with that.

Ohhh, 5 spd....sporty 

You got it! And the 14 inch rubber made it extra sporting.

[nlm]

While there is some merit behind the Si being relatively good on resale, for me that is not a very significant factor in a purhase decision. I put more weight into how the vehicle drives while I got it. And hence agree with the conclusions at this price point the Si is in tough company from an enthusiast perspective.

If practicality rated high then I would strike the coupe from the list and be looking at the sedan. The good thing about this article is that it doubles as a tire review for those Michelins and hence that could be an option with an aftermarket tire swap on the sedan without the garish add-ons of the HFP package.

I also prefer the "Honda Factor [sic] Performance" label used in the article over the real one. 

[greengs]

There is a review out there showing this version of the Civic was faster around a race track than the BRZ.  I think people understimate the Si.  That's not to say the BRZ isn't a better handling car and more balance and if it had decent tires it probably would have beaten the Si, but the Si is a very capable fun car to drive. 
Its transmission alone is probably the best on the market right now. 

[Fobroader]

There is a review out there showing this version of the Civic was faster around a race track than the BRZ.  I think people understimate the Si.  That's not to say the BRZ isn't a better handling car and more balance and if it had decent tires it probably would have beaten the Si, but the Si is a very capable fun car to drive. 
Its transmission alone is probably the best on the market right now.

Honda has always made shweet shifting manuals. My cousins 98 (?) Prelude was amazing to drive.

[CanuckS2K]

There is a review out there showing this version of the Civic was faster around a race track than the BRZ.  I think people understimate the Si.  That's not to say the BRZ isn't a better handling car and more balance and if it had decent tires it probably would have beaten the Si, but the Si is a very capable fun car to drive. 
Its transmission alone is probably the best on the market right now.

Honda has always made shweet shifting manuals. My cousins 98 (?) Prelude was amazing to drive.

Agreed.  My first Honda was a 90 Prelude SR.  Loved that car! 

[SaskSpecV]

I just can't believe Mike got 8.4 L/100 km in anything other than a Prius...

[Mike]

I just can't believe Mike got 8.4 L/100 km in anything other than a Prius...

Scary part is that I try to achieve decent gas mileage.  If I drove all these test cars they way to all the time; consumption would border on ludicrous.

[Solstice2006]

But folks up here are not gonna be buying tons of sub 3000 lb, rwd cars. Just ain't gonna happen.

I bet the SI will outsell the BRZ 5 to 1. The BRZ will be a great second car, but the SI will be a great only car. The BRZ will end up being just like the diesel, 5 speed wagons, that everyone here raves about, but no one a actually buys.

Are you kidding?  The BRZ and FRS may not sell like the Civic SI, because its RWD.  But they will sell great, and hit their target volume for a long time, just like the Genesis.  Also remember that Canada sales are relatively small when compared to the US, where it is warmer, so I can see more BRZ and FRS getting sold their.

Also, to make the level more even, don't even count the BRZ and FRS, as they are RWD, and in a different class.  So with the Mazda,Focus, and GTI offering hatchback, they are a more useful daily driver.  Each have its strenghts and weakness, but where the resale and reliability come in for the Honda, the GTI strengths are the quality in materials, practicality of a hatchback, and fun to drive factor over the Honda, with the only weakness being not as reliable, but in this category, enthusiasts don't put that as a top priority.

Where did you get that the Genesis hit its sales targets? Only rear wheel drive coupes doing well are the Camaro and Mustang.

I would say 30,000 (USA) genesis sold a year is not bad, sure it may not be the 65,000 Mustangs or Camaros, but not many are rentals either, and the pony cars have a dedicated following as well.  One thing for sure, more genesis sales than GTI sales.  But it's not about the numbers, it's about whats most important to you, and in this category for me, its not resale value, it's fun to drive factor, and refinement.  And for me that would be the GTI.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The 30k US figure includes Genesis sedan sales. Hyundai US doesn't want to break out the numbers apparently.

[Ace]

I wonder why the SI is not offered as a way more practical hatchback (aside from the increased structual stiffness of the coupe design).
 

[Fobroader]

I wonder why the SI is not offered as a way more practical hatchback (aside from the increased structual stiffness of the coupe design).

Besides the Golf, hatchbacks I think have fallen out of favour with the car buying public.....or you would still be able to buy a brand new Dodge Omni GLH-S from a dealer