Topic: I hope this isn't a sign of things to come.

[mlin32]

Going from a luxury CUV to a Mazda economy car is a far cry different than going from an ML to an RX or similar.

The reviews were glowing. The tech was great (ok, a lot of the tech is German.....my company supplied it) and I generally wasn't complaining about the comfort/convenience features which were actually similar. But I mentioned a lot of the hardware and implementation was underbaked. Plus, you'd think an engine of the same displacement that's 12 years newer would make more power. But let's not take this thread down that path......it's a story I'd like to forget.

[rrocket]

^^It's an economy car.  You should have known better.

And found out the hard way.

[johngenx]

I guess I've come to the point where all the hassle of dealer visits and so on just outweighs the small intangible benefit the Germans offer compared to the competition.  And I agree that comparing a Mazda3 to a $60K car is kinda ludicrous.

A friend of mine bought a 2004 BMW X5 as a winter beater.  It's the same year as my Highlander and has about the same mileage.  It's a bit nicer to drive when you compare them back to back, but otherwise, at almost 12 years old, the massive price difference of the X5 feels long gone.  The interior is a bit nicer (as it has leather, etc) but the materials haven't held up as well (the seat leather is cracking) and the extra options aren't really all that noticeable save for the heated seats - something I've considered having installed.  The Highlander's paint is as good as the BMW - still looks great when cleaned up.  The Highlander rides better but handles a bit poorer - a compromise.  Squeak, rattle, etc wise, it's a complete draw - both are very tight.  The BMW has better sound deadening in terms of tire noise and driveline sounds, but worse wind noise - so again a draw.  The Highlanders driveline feels much stronger thanks to the large weight difference.  The 3.3L six in the Toyota is as smooth as the BMW's 3.0L straight six.

The huge difference is in terms of depreciation - the new owner of the BMW (second one for this car) paid quite a bit less in the used market than he would have had for a comparable Highlander despite the Toyota being a few tens of thousands less initially. The next large gap is in terms of service and repair history.  The Highlander's is brief and mostly uneventful.  The BMW's looks like a phone book for a good sized city - and many of the repairs were in the many-thousands-of-dollars thanks to ridiculous parts prices and outrageous book hours and labour rates.

If we were comparing the BMW to a 2004 RX330, the story would be pretty much the same - of course the RX did depreciate more than the Highlander overall (as most lux models do) but still quite a bit less than the X5.  And in all of the RX owners I've known (they're like axles in my neighbourhood, everyone has a couple) no one has had anything resembling the history of the X5 with their Lexus.  In fact, quite a few of the RX owners around here replaced an X5 out of frustration - and haven't regretted that decision for second.

The Germans make some great cars.  I'd take a chance on a Golf R.  VW has issues, but they seem to put the GTI and R together with some care - long term reports on both are decent.  Also, they don't depreciate like nuts meaning you can get out without getting pummeled.  But for the most part, I lack the patience to deal with a troublesome FGC.  And hell, I have time, I just don't want to spend it shuttling a car around.

In the lux SUV market, I'd pretty much only consider a Lexus or Acura.  Proven reliable.  Luxurious and expensive looking.  Decent resale.  And German SUVs overall seem to be less reliable than the cars they produce - so in the SUV arena, I'd stay away for sure.

[rrocket]

^^I feel pretty much the same.  Despite being able to wrench on my own cars, it gets tiring very quickly to own a maintenance-whore car..which most FCG are due to their questionable engineering and build quality.

I think there was a time when the German cars had some tangible benefits..perhaps ultimate handling.  But those days are pretty much long gone.  And "handling" in an SUV is a relative term anyways.

[sailor723]

I see a lot of these in my ML. 

The funniest part is that I have 2 daughters and a wife that would find at least some of these definitions plausible. 

[mlin32]

In the interest of full transparency, here's my turn.

Mother called me this evening, saying the Tiguan's climatisation failed on her (again) in 2h traffic today. All whiney about it being 25°C outside and uncomfortable. This happened last fall too under similar circumstances except it was 33°.

My response:
"Why did you sit thru 2h of traffic? You know you can't take that commute between 14h-18h, why do you schedule your errands that way?"
"I don't know"
"Did you turn the thermostat to minimum?"
"I think so, it wouldn't blow cold air."
"Ok, didn't father check and refill the freon last time this happened? Did you occasionally turn it on over the winter to keep parts in shape?"
"I dunno, he refilled it last time but we haven't used it since then."
"OK, take it to the dealer, I don't know what to say. I don't maintain that car and I don't know of it being a problem area for the Tiguan."
"How much will it cost? Maybe 100-200$?"
"No, depends on what's wrong. Plan 400-500$."

1. I can't diagnose a car I don't maintain, nor have a maintenance history of. Especially if it's 700km away.
2. If you can't produce proof of periodic maintenance..........I can't guarantee things will work. My father thinks maintenance involves only oil changes; his perception hasn't changed since the 80s. He stockpiles a ton of motor oil and WD 40 ( ?! ), and does nothing else.

Quick Google search makes me think its faulty air compressor or leaking hose. @ 72k I would have expected it to be caught at a periodic inspection interval (which he skips). Or perhaps the worker in Wolfsburg was in a hurry to get to currywurst day at the cantine.

[rrocket]

In the interest of full transparency, here's my turn.

Mother called me this evening, saying the Tiguan's climatisation failed on her (again) in 2h traffic today. All whiney about it being 25°C outside and uncomfortable. This happened last fall too under similar circumstances except it was 33°.

My response:
"Why did you sit thru 2h of traffic? You know you can't take that commute between 14h-18h, why do you schedule your errands that way?"
"I don't know"
"Did you turn the thermostat to minimum?"
"I think so, it wouldn't blow cold air."
"Ok, didn't father check and refill the freon last time this happened? Did you occasionally turn it on over the winter to keep parts in shape?"
"I dunno, he refilled it last time but we haven't used it since then."
"OK, take it to the dealer, I don't know what to say. I don't maintain that car and I don't know of it being a problem area for the Tiguan."
"How much will it cost? Maybe 100-200$?"
"No, depends on what's wrong. Plan 400-500$."

1. I can't diagnose a car I don't maintain, nor have a maintenance history of. Especially if it's 700km away.
2. If you can't produce proof of periodic maintenance..........I can't guarantee things will work. My father thinks maintenance involves only oil changes; his perception hasn't changed since the 80s. He stockpiles a ton of motor oil and WD 40 ( ?! ), and does nothing else.

Quick Google search makes me think its faulty air compressor or leaking hose. @ 72k I would have expected it to be caught at a periodic inspection interval (which he skips). Or perhaps the worker in Wolfsburg was in a hurry to get to currywurst day at the cantine.

Frustrating, eh?  Did you break the keyboard as you were typing that?   

[mlin32]

Frustrating, eh?  Did you break the keyboard as you were typing that?   

Not at all. Like I said, I place a clear distinction between cars I maintain, and those I don't. In years past, even though the 3er was with my parents, I controlled the maintenance (which wasn't much). I did the spark plugs and all but 1 of the oil changes. I sourced the oil and parts. Brakes and alignment were done at my local NC repair shop in brief instances when I brought the car down to my place in NC. I ordered any replacement tires.

I had the Tiguan for 3 months in 2013 between 9k and 15k. Had local dealer do the first maintenance service, stamped booklet. No issues then. Out of my hands. It's sad that has to happen to my mother though. Had it happened to me when I was there over the weekend, I'd be in a better position to at least figure out what's wrong.

[Ex-airbalancer]

In the interest of full transparency, here's my turn.

Mother called me this evening, saying the Tiguan's climatisation failed on her (again) in 2h traffic today. All whiney about it being 25°C outside and uncomfortable. This happened last fall too under similar circumstances except it was 33°.

My response:
"Why did you sit thru 2h of traffic? You know you can't take that commute between 14h-18h, why do you schedule your errands that way?"
"I don't know"
"Did you turn the thermostat to minimum?"
"I think so, it wouldn't blow cold air."
"Ok, didn't father check and refill the freon last time this happened? Did you occasionally turn it on over the winter to keep parts in shape?"
"I dunno, he refilled it last time but we haven't used it since then."
"OK, take it to the dealer, I don't know what to say. I don't maintain that car and I don't know of it being a problem area for the Tiguan."
"How much will it cost? Maybe 100-200$?"
"No, depends on what's wrong. Plan 400-500$."

1. I can't diagnose a car I don't maintain, nor have a maintenance history of. Especially if it's 700km away.
2. If you can't produce proof of periodic maintenance..........I can't guarantee things will work. My father thinks maintenance involves only oil changes; his perception hasn't changed since the 80s. He stockpiles a ton of motor oil and WD 40 ( ?! ), and does nothing else.

Quick Google search makes me think its faulty air compressor or leaking hose. @ 72k I would have expected it to be caught at a periodic inspection interval (which he skips). Or perhaps the worker in Wolfsburg was in a hurry to get to currywurst day at the cantine.

You are a little smart ass talking about your mother than way

[mlin32]

You are a little smart ass talking about your mother than way

But I say it as it is, no? It's not like a similar situation hasn't happened before, especially given the lack of maintenance on their vehicles. Even this past weekend I had to correct the tire pressures on that car, and again check the tread depth on the tires. And I found a clogged drain hole underneath the windshield when checking underneath the hood.

My father's reaction: "So I can go another year on these tires, right?"
"Um....I don't think so. Looks like you have maybe 4-5mm left, you see those minimum tread depth indicators? You don't want to get close to that."
"Oh okay, so they'll last another year, thanks."

I wish they'd just get a maintenance-free Japanese car. But they don't like the way they drive......

I'd swap cars and take care of the Tiguan for a few months but there's problems to that. 1) They have a dog, and transporting one in a sedan doesn't really work. 2) The safety equipment/lighting specs on the Tiguan don't meet ECE standards, and thus fails my basic standards, and 3) The transmission in that car drives me nuts.

[safristi]

Geez in My Family it is mainly me an olde fart..that makes sure all vehicles are Co Pacetic........damn good tyres &wheels(no steelies) Winter and Summer and best of oil.,required timing belt changes,decent plugs..and fer fark sake clean that *box out..........I musta missed the Missive fer Millenials to SLACK ORFF!!!!

[Ex-airbalancer]

You are a little smart ass talking about your mother than way

But I say it as it is, no? It's not like a similar situation hasn't happened before, especially given the lack of maintenance on their vehicles. Even this past weekend I had to correct the tire pressures on that car, and again check the tread depth on the tires. And I found a clogged drain hole underneath the windshield when checking underneath the hood.

My father's reaction: "So I can go another year on these tires, right?"
"Um....I don't think so. Looks like you have maybe 4-5mm left, you see those minimum tread depth indicators? You don't want to get close to that."
"Oh okay, so they'll last another year, thanks."

I wish they'd just get a maintenance-free Japanese car. But they don't like the way they drive......

I'd swap cars and take care of the Tiguan for a few months but there's problems to that. 1) They have a dog, and transporting one in a sedan doesn't really work. 2) The safety equipment/lighting specs on the Tiguan don't meet ECE standards, and thus fails my basic standards, and 3) The transmission in that car drives me nuts.

As a son , you do the work and tell them it no problem ,
you are driving their Bimmer so buy them new tires for the Tiguan

[mmret]

You are a little smart ass talking about your mother than way

But I say it as it is, no? It's not like a similar situation hasn't happened before, especially given the lack of maintenance on their vehicles. Even this past weekend I had to correct the tire pressures on that car, and again check the tread depth on the tires. And I found a clogged drain hole underneath the windshield when checking underneath the hood.

My father's reaction: "So I can go another year on these tires, right?"
"Um....I don't think so. Looks like you have maybe 4-5mm left, you see those minimum tread depth indicators? You don't want to get close to that."
"Oh okay, so they'll last another year, thanks."

I wish they'd just get a maintenance-free Japanese car. But they don't like the way they drive......

I'd swap cars and take care of the Tiguan for a few months but there's problems to that. 1) They have a dog, and transporting one in a sedan doesn't really work. 2) The safety equipment/lighting specs on the Tiguan don't meet ECE standards, and thus fails my basic standards, and 3) The transmission in that car drives me nuts.

Relax...AirB is old and traditional and a bit crufty.

[rrocket]

As a son , you do the work and tell them it no problem ,
you are driving their Bimmer so buy them new tires for the Tiguan

I disagree.  If his parents are too old to drop the car off for an oil change or to have tires installed....they are too old to drive and should sell their vehicles.

[Ex-airbalancer]

As a son , you do the work and tell them it no problem ,
you are driving their Bimmer so buy them new tires for the Tiguan

I disagree.  If his parents are too old to drop the car off for an oil change or to have tires installed....they are too old to drive and should sell their vehicles.

I bet there probably more younger people who that screw up their cars than old people
Besides his parents are probably not that old

[tortoise]

I can't figure out why mlin thinks a failed a/c compressor or hose is the result of poor maintenance.

[mlin32]

As a son , you do the work and tell them it no problem ,
you are driving their Bimmer so buy them new tires for the Tiguan

I disagree.  If his parents are too old to drop the car off for an oil change or to have tires installed....they are too old to drive and should sell their vehicles.

It's not age. Dad doesn't see the point in spending money on vehicle maintenance. If I bought him tires now without him asking, he'd ask why I'm wasting money. If I took his car to the dealer to do the 60k service, he'd throw a fit and tell me to stop pissing money away.

I ordered replacement wiper blades last fall. He asked why I spent the money, and let them sit in the garage. When I drove the car over Christmas and saw they were still streaking, I asked if he'd replaced them. "Oh no, I planned on saving them until after the winter, you know, so they don't get damaged from the road salt and ice". I ignored that, and installed the new blades right away.

That's why I have a general policy of not touching other folks' cars maintenance/parts unless asked.

As to how following the service booklet related to a failed climatisation, service intervals include inspection of the Air Con units and other items. If they had been done, perhaps the problem would have been caught while under warranty. It's kind of like a house: you check and clean the gutters on a regular basis so water doesn't jam up and leak in. Or you pay someone to do it for you. You don't ignore it until watermarks show up on your walls.

[sailor723]

I got a sudden loss of power and a CEL while on the highway this morning about 80 kms from home  I managed to limp back to town ( 125 downhills and struggling to do 90 uphill). Feels like it could be fuel flow issue. Car is in the shop now  so we'll see. Car is due for a new fuel filter at the next service in about 5,000 kms

[Ex-airbalancer]

The thread that keeps on giving 

[Hannibalsmith]

Sailor, if you buy a Lexus we'll never hear from you again...