Topic: Test Drive: 2015 Honda Civic Si

[Noto]

I didn't even bother to drive one when I was shopping for a performance car summer of 2014.  There's just not enough performance, the interior of the Civic is not all that great, and the insurance on these is Subaru WRX STi high.  I'd like to believe the upcoming Civic Type R will be better but I'm sure it too will have a even crazier insurance rate, hence it would have to make up for that with truly special performance.

Plus I really wanted AWD or RWD.

I notice a lot of posts from out east mention insurance issues on certain cars.  What would the difference be between say a really cheap car to insure vs a really expensive out there for full coverage per month.  This has never been an issue for me.  My STI was maybe $10 more per month than our minivan.  I've had lots of cars and they were all within 10-20/month of each other to insure.  Anything from ITR to S2000 to now Tundra.

Well the difference between a Subaru Imprezza and a Honda Civic is quiet a bit (we're talking base models).  Last time I got a quote the Imprezza was around $80 per month and the Civic around $175.

The difference between my Golf R and a base model Subaru WRX was close to $100 per month.

When I asked about these prices it seems the Civic is due to there being a butt load of them on the road and hence a lot of accidents (plus a lot of kids drive them and get in fender benders constantly).  The WRX is because a lot of them are written off when people go full on WRC Rally driving, you'd be surprised how many WRX owners become complete idiots the second they buy one (present company excluded of course).

The high insurance premiums on the Civic are based on likelihood of theft.  Earlier Civics were major targets because they were easy to steal and looked the same as every other car on the road (hard to choose a stolen one out of a crowd).

Now that the Civic is less-often stolen, insurers should bring down premiums.  ...but who's going to force them to do so?  Exactly.

[Ryancoke]

Maybe it's just the coupe that's expensive to insure. I have full coverage on my SI sedan for less then $70 a month(30's,perfect record mind you). I do sometimes wish for more power but the car is a good bang for the buck and I average under 8litres per 100kms in gas(been running 89 octane since new as well). I have to agree with the first part of the article that our freight/pdi we pay is stupid especially since it's built in Ontario. I actually worked in sales at a Honda dealership for a little bit and the number one complaint was that cost and was asked several times if they could just drive to Alliston to get their vehicle there.

[Woodyism]

Tell you what, let's have a call for volunteers for some day early next year when I have versions of touchscreen cars and knob equipped cars. It's time to test this fully.

Count me in, I have the touchscreen option, which I prefer. 
Cheers
Woody

[drive67]

You have a drivers car and the big debate is who is the biggest Knob

[Seafoam]

You have a drivers car and the big debate is who is the biggest Knob

Exactly.That's why there are so many accidents.Drivers are playing with so many gadgets in the car instead of looking at the road.
Sorry for the rant I am old.

[Noto]

Drivers are playing with so many gadgets in the car instead of looking at the road.

Not "so many".

Just one.

[Spec5]

You guys are funny - what's with all the meme's?!

Anyway I'm tight for time so sorry if others pointed this out but....

I lease my vehicles so if we're looking at lease rates and competition this car is quite a bit cheaper to lease than its "competition". To be fair everything else in its category pretty well is a more sporty drive with more power and arguably better handling (well, the Mazda 3 would be the closest I think). Anyway all that being said Honda's lease rate is .99% over 48 months with 20k kms. Works out to $362.22 after their apparent little rebate that they have right now showing in green, but lets take that out to be more "fair" - so $386/mnth taxes in 0 down. The Focus ST with the same term and kms and not adding ANY options (didn't on the Si either) works out to $519/mnth. That's $133/mnth difference! Quite a difference - why? because the rate at Ford is 2.49%. I'd much prefer the ST myself but having a small sedan with some balls for under $400 a month is pretty tough to say no to.

On insurance, I asked my insurance guy about this because when I was buying a year or two ago the Golf was more expensive than the Civic was. While saying the formula is pretty complicated its not just about replacement parts and what something cost but also about "survivability" - so how badly they figure you'll be mangled (death is preferred for them I think) after a serious crash.

On the destination fees - the above mentioned example of the Focus and the Civic. The Ford is $1700 while the Civic is just under $1900 - so pretty close. But I get that the Civic I believe is make here in Alliston so.......... fwiw..

[dirtyjeffer]

That's $133/mnth difference! Quite a difference - why? because the rate at Ford is 2.49%. I'd much prefer the ST myself but having a small sedan with some balls for under $400 a month is pretty tough to say no to.

the rate is one part, residual value is another...the Ford won't be anywhere near the Honda in terms of resale.

On insurance, I asked my insurance guy about this because when I was buying a year or two ago the Golf was more expensive than the Civic was. While saying the formula is pretty complicated its not just about replacement parts and what something cost but also about "survivability" - so how badly they figure you'll be mangled (death is preferred for them I think) after a serious crash.

several factors...one aspect is cost for repairs in an accident (so, if both cars are rear ended the same way, and the Civic is $2000 to repair, and the Ford is $4000 to repair, the Ford will have the higher premium)...the other is personal injury...the less the injuries sustained, the lower the claims...therefore, the lower the risk, the lower the premium...minimal injury is the most preferable, but death can be less costly to the insurance company than someone who has a life long disability as that can cost an absolute fortune.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

That's $133/mnth difference! Quite a difference - why? because the rate at Ford is 2.49%. I'd much prefer the ST myself but having a small sedan with some balls for under $400 a month is pretty tough to say no to.

the rate is one part, residual value is another...the Ford won't be anywhere near the Honda in terms of resale.

On insurance, I asked my insurance guy about this because when I was buying a year or two ago the Golf was more expensive than the Civic was. While saying the formula is pretty complicated its not just about replacement parts and what something cost but also about "survivability" - so how badly they figure you'll be mangled (death is preferred for them I think) after a serious crash.

several factors...one aspect is cost for repairs in an accident (so, if both cars are rear ended the same way, and the Civic is $2000 to repair, and the Ford is $4000 to repair, the Ford will have the higher premium)...the other is personal injury...the less the injuries sustained, the lower the claims...therefore, the lower the risk, the lower the premium...minimal injury is the most preferable, but death can be less costly to the insurance company than someone who has a life long disability as that can cost an absolute fortune.

You're kind of right.

[Cord]

You guys are funny - what's with all the meme's?!

Anyway I'm tight for time so sorry if others pointed this out but....

I lease my vehicles so if we're looking at lease rates and competition this car is quite a bit cheaper to lease than its "competition". To be fair everything else in its category pretty well is a more sporty drive with more power and arguably better handling (well, the Mazda 3 would be the closest I think). Anyway all that being said Honda's lease rate is .99% over 48 months with 20k kms. Works out to $362.22 after their apparent little rebate that they have right now showing in green, but lets take that out to be more "fair" - so $386/mnth taxes in 0 down. The Focus ST with the same term and kms and not adding ANY options (didn't on the Si either) works out to $519/mnth. That's $133/mnth difference! Quite a difference - why? because the rate at Ford is 2.49%. I'd much prefer the ST myself but having a small sedan with some balls for under $400 a month is pretty tough to say no to.

On insurance, I asked my insurance guy about this because when I was buying a year or two ago the Golf was more expensive than the Civic was. While saying the formula is pretty complicated its not just about replacement parts and what something cost but also about "survivability" - so how badly they figure you'll be mangled (death is preferred for them I think) after a serious crash.

On the destination fees - the above mentioned example of the Focus and the Civic. The Ford is $1700 while the Civic is just under $1900 - so pretty close. But I get that the Civic I believe is make here in Alliston so.......... fwiw..

It looks like you are comparing a 2015 Civic with a 2016 Focus. The interest rate on the lease for a 2015 ST is also 0.99%. The lease payment on the 2015 is lower, still not as low as the Civic's payment.

Along with rates, residuals are just another factor that can be incentivised. They in no way represent some absolute predictor of future value. Artificially inflating residual values is the way most manufacturers achieve low lease payments - since it doesn't affect the vehicle price for the cash and finance customers. This is perfect for someone that leases and has no interest in keeping the car at the end of the lease because it makes the payments lower by raising the buyout amount. Some of that is likely at play in your example since the Honda is priced about $3000 lower and yet the lease buyout is about $1000 higher.

[greengs]

You guys are funny - what's with all the meme's?!

Anyway I'm tight for time so sorry if others pointed this out but....

I lease my vehicles so if we're looking at lease rates and competition this car is quite a bit cheaper to lease than its "competition". To be fair everything else in its category pretty well is a more sporty drive with more power and arguably better handling (well, the Mazda 3 would be the closest I think). Anyway all that being said Honda's lease rate is .99% over 48 months with 20k kms. Works out to $362.22 after their apparent little rebate that they have right now showing in green, but lets take that out to be more "fair" - so $386/mnth taxes in 0 down. The Focus ST with the same term and kms and not adding ANY options (didn't on the Si either) works out to $519/mnth. That's $133/mnth difference! Quite a difference - why? because the rate at Ford is 2.49%. I'd much prefer the ST myself but having a small sedan with some balls for under $400 a month is pretty tough to say no to.

On insurance, I asked my insurance guy about this because when I was buying a year or two ago the Golf was more expensive than the Civic was. While saying the formula is pretty complicated its not just about replacement parts and what something cost but also about "survivability" - so how badly they figure you'll be mangled (death is preferred for them I think) after a serious crash.

On the destination fees - the above mentioned example of the Focus and the Civic. The Ford is $1700 while the Civic is just under $1900 - so pretty close. But I get that the Civic I believe is make here in Alliston so.......... fwiw..

It gets even better if you have a Honda already as you would get 0.01% lease rate vs 0.99%.  I was too messing around with 2015 Civic SI quotes and I would be able to get a 5 year lease at 0.01% (since 4 yr and 5 yr lease are listed at 0.99%) with some discount from dealer under $300 GST included 0 down.  (Alberta)

Generally, Honda, Toyota, VW, BWM, MB, Lexus and Subaru seem to have best lease programs.  A friend just leased a 2016 GTI for $355/month all in, 0 down.  (3 door, DSG). 

[OliverD]

Generally, Honda, Toyota, VW, BWM, MB, Lexus and Subaru seem to have best lease programs.  A friend just leased a 2016 GTI for $355/month all in, 0 down.  (3 door, DSG).

For four years I assume? That's definitely good. Mine is a lot more than that (granted, mine is loaded) for three years/25k a year.

[greengs]

Generally, Honda, Toyota, VW, BWM, MB, Lexus and Subaru seem to have best lease programs.  A friend just leased a 2016 GTI for $355/month all in, 0 down.  (3 door, DSG).

For four years I assume? That's definitely good. Mine is a lot more than that (granted, mine is loaded) for three years/25k a year.

4 year term, 25k/yr.  His is a 3 door, DSG and it's the non autobahn model, which 5 doors don't come in.  Also here we only have a 5% tax so that helps.  Plus VW is pretty flexible right now on the non R models.  IIRC, the total cost was somewhere around $30k with all fees and freight/pdi. 

[dirtyjeffer]

You're kind of right.

the Focus ST is $4k more than the Civic Si.

a quick search on autotrader only shows me 2 STs for sale in Ontario for MY 2013:

the lowest price one is $23k for a 2013 with 32,300 kms on it with the tech package (this vehicle is $33,098 new).
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Ford/Focus/Windsor/Ontario/5_26071388_ON20081124114223703/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=3_100_317
so after 2 years and only 32,300 kms, it is worth 69.5% of its original value.

there are only a few of Civic Si cars too:

the lowest price one is $20,300 for a 2013 with 34,400 kms (this vehicle is $26,850 new).
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Honda/Civic/St+Catharines/Ontario/5_25292438_ON20071217114849718/?showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=5_100_321
so after 2 years and 34,400 kms, it is worth 75.6%.

i know these are list prices, but in general, the Honda will get more when sold than the Ford will...your VW will be the same (it will be worth more than a Ford or Chevy).

[johngenx]

DO NOT WANT touchscreens OR mouse-style controllers of ANY kind.  Cripes.  The HVAC controls and radio in the old Highlander can be operated either with the briefest glance or without looking at all.

Honestly, they might as well start mounting the driver's seat facing backwards for how much people are paying attention - and this garbage contributes to it.