Topic: Used Vehicle Review: Porsche Boxster, 2005-2011

[Autos_Editor]

There are only a few things to watch out for, but one of them is a real doozy.

Read More...

[D70]

A less expensive option that has no such potential engine or hood problems is caught in this scenic spot showing a silver Boxster

http://www.flickr.com/photos/d70w7/6258894385/

[lebowski]

<div style="text-align:left">

There are only a few things to watch out for, but one of them is a real doozy.

<a href=http://www.autos.ca/used-car-reviews/used-vehicle-review-porsche-boxster-2005-2011>Read More...</a></div>

Those IMS/RMS issues are a dealbreaker - would there be any credibility to the notion that if a Boxster has reached a certain mileage point (i'm thinking like 80,000km's) , they likely are free and clear of risks for an IMS/RMS failure?

[Danno001]

Those IMS/RMS issues are a dealbreaker - would there be any credibility to the notion that if a Boxster has reached a certain mileage point (i'm thinking like 80,000km's) , they likely are free and clear of risks for an IMS/RMS failure?

If I read the article corectly, the risk of failure increases as you put more Kms on the car. The IMS seals fail, allow engine oil in, which washes out the grease, the engine oil ages as it has no escape route, congeals, loses lubricity and then bearing failure.

[whaddaiknow]

Those IMS/RMS issues are a dealbreaker - would there be any credibility to the notion that if a Boxster has reached a certain mileage point (i'm thinking like 80,000km's) , they likely are free and clear of risks for an IMS/RMS failure?

If I read the article corectly, the risk of failure increases as you put more Kms on the car. The IMS seals fail, allow engine oil in, which washes out the grease, the engine oil ages as it has no escape route, congeals, loses lubricity and then bearing failure.

Is the base Boxster prone to the same failures or is it a different design?
Is the problem widespread or a relatively mildly used specimen with all service records should generally be OK?
Anyone know?

[Vanstar]

Here is my rule of thumb for any used car, not just a Porsche. Ask yourself, truthfully, "Can I afford to run a new one?" If the answer is "yes," then buy your car and enjoy the savings, which will be considerable.

On the other hand, if the answer is "no," run away from a potential financial problem.

[whaddaiknow]

Here is my rule of thumb for any used car, not just a Porsche. Ask yourself, truthfully, "Can I afford to run a new one?" If the answer is "yes," then buy your car and enjoy the savings, which will be considerable.

On the other hand, if the answer is "no," run away from a potential financial problem.

If bought as a low mileage summer toy that's not going to depreciate much anymore, why not? A serious underlying problem would be a deterring factor if it ends up costing half of what you paid for the whole thing.

A 2002+ Lexus SC430 as a summer toy is a pretty safe bet in terms of reliability, and I wouldn't worry too much about its running costs if I only put 10k km's a year on it. But where's the fun in that? The Boxster would give me all the topless fun I want and I don't mind paying for regular maintenance but if the chances for a major failure are high even under normal usage conditions, I'll probably pass.
That's why I was asking about the base vs 'S' if they were the same design prone to similar failures.

For some reason I thought Porsche's of late had been scoring pretty high on reliability. Is that not true?

[lebowski]

Those IMS/RMS issues are a dealbreaker - would there be any credibility to the notion that if a Boxster has reached a certain mileage point (i'm thinking like 80,000km's) , they likely are free and clear of risks for an IMS/RMS failure?

If I read the article corectly, the risk of failure increases as you put more Kms on the car. The IMS seals fail, allow engine oil in, which washes out the grease, the engine oil ages as it has no escape route, congeals, loses lubricity and then bearing failure.

Cool, thanks. Ya I must have missed that in the article but it makes sense.

Is the base Boxster prone to the same failures or is it a different design?
Is the problem widespread or a relatively mildly used specimen with all service records should generally be OK?
Anyone know?

The IMS/RMS failure is a risk inherent in every boxster/cayman produced up until the 2009 DFI models. Is it widespread? That's the $64,000 question - I'll say the issue has been prevalent to the point that it has been the subject of many, many forum threads.

Here is my rule of thumb for any used car, not just a Porsche. Ask yourself, truthfully, "Can I afford to run a new one?" If the answer is "yes," then buy your car and enjoy the savings, which will be considerable.

On the other hand, if the answer is "no," run away from a potential financial problem.

Yes, but that's not taking into account the "lemon" factor: the boxster, because of a particular engineering flaw in the IMS, is prone to disastrous, disproportionately pricey repairs. An M3, on the other hand, costs as much as a Boxster new, but it's far less likely you'd need a ~$10,000 engine-out rebuild of the M3's motor than you would the Boxster.

[Flinter]

Those IMS/RMS issues are a dealbreaker - would there be any credibility to the notion that if a Boxster has reached a certain mileage point (i'm thinking like 80,000km's) , they likely are free and clear of risks for an IMS/RMS failure?

If I read the article corectly, the risk of failure increases as you put more Kms on the car. The IMS seals fail, allow engine oil in, which washes out the grease, the engine oil ages as it has no escape route, congeals, loses lubricity and then bearing failure.

Is the base Boxster prone to the same failures or is it a different design?
Is the problem widespread or a relatively mildly used specimen with all service records should generally be OK?
Anyone know?

I know this is a bit counterintuitive but I've read that the IMS problem is more prevalent on cars that were not used regularly and not driven hard. The explaination was that frequent use and driving in the high RPM range resulted in more engine oil finding it's way out into the IMS bearing resulting in increased lubrication and extending the bearing life.

I'm starting to think that perhaps the best strategy is to buy a higher milage well used 911, Boxster, Cayman and use the resulting savings to jump start your "engine rebuild fund".

[chrischasescars]

Those IMS/RMS issues are a dealbreaker - would there be any credibility to the notion that if a Boxster has reached a certain mileage point (i'm thinking like 80,000km's) , they likely are free and clear of risks for an IMS/RMS failure?

If I read the article corectly, the risk of failure increases as you put more Kms on the car. The IMS seals fail, allow engine oil in, which washes out the grease, the engine oil ages as it has no escape route, congeals, loses lubricity and then bearing failure.

Is the base Boxster prone to the same failures or is it a different design?
Is the problem widespread or a relatively mildly used specimen with all service records should generally be OK?
Anyone know?

I know this is a bit counterintuitive but I've read that the IMS problem is more prevalent on cars that were not used regularly and not driven hard. The explaination was that frequent use and driving in the high RPM range resulted in more engine oil finding it's way out into the IMS bearing resulting in increased lubrication and extending the bearing life.

I'm starting to think that perhaps the best strategy is to buy a higher milage well used 911, Boxster, Cayman and use the resulting savings to jump start your "engine rebuild fund".

Or, buy one that's had the seal replaced (whether the bearing had previously failed or not) and enjoy it while it lasts.

[chrischasescars]

Those IMS/RMS issues are a dealbreaker - would there be any credibility to the notion that if a Boxster has reached a certain mileage point (i'm thinking like 80,000km's) , they likely are free and clear of risks for an IMS/RMS failure?

If I read the article corectly, the risk of failure increases as you put more Kms on the car. The IMS seals fail, allow engine oil in, which washes out the grease, the engine oil ages as it has no escape route, congeals, loses lubricity and then bearing failure.

Is the base Boxster prone to the same failures or is it a different design?
Is the problem widespread or a relatively mildly used specimen with all service records should generally be OK?
Anyone know?

Boxster S from 2009 on don't have an IMS (S models in those years used the newer DI motor) and so are the only Boxster models thus far that avoid the self-destructing engine problem.

[ArticSteve]

Awesome review/article Chris!

Essentially the IMS bearing is a clutch job which have always been a PIA in Porches.  Better to find a Boxster with 60-80k miles and price in a clutch/IMS and then get it done asap. 

[lebowski]

Or, buy one that's had the seal replaced (whether the bearing had previously failed or not) and enjoy it while it lasts.

Awesome review/article Chris!

Essentially the IMS bearing is a clutch job which have always been a PIA in Porches.  Better to find a Boxster with 60-80k miles and price in a clutch/IMS and then get it done asap. 

Hypothetically, if you preemptively replace the original IMS bearing before it goes bad, would that be an effective, permanent fix? Or will it still only be a matter of time before the replacement bearing also goes bad?

[Danno001]

Hypothetically, if you preemptively replace the original IMS bearing before it goes bad, would that be an effective, permanent fix? Or will it still only be a matter of time before the replacement bearing also goes bad?

The way I would approach it is that when you change the clutch, change the IMS bearing (assuming it has been replaced with updated unit). Makes for an expensive clutch job.
The other part that has me concerned is the bearing pulling tool. Not sure what the heck is going on in that engine when the tool pulls out that bearing and attached circlip. Circlips are designed to hold something in place and when they get pulled out by brute force, what other damage is going on in the engine?

[whaddaiknow]

Hypothetically, if you preemptively replace the original IMS bearing before it goes bad, would that be an effective, permanent fix? Or will it still only be a matter of time before the replacement bearing also goes bad?

I'd like to know that too. Any Porsche guru's out there?

[aquadorhj]

Hypothetically, if you preemptively replace the original IMS bearing before it goes bad, would that be an effective, permanent fix? Or will it still only be a matter of time before the replacement bearing also goes bad?

I'd like to know that too. Any Porsche guru's out there?

from the links previously posted by another member, 'rrocket' regarding this, i gathered that all OEM IMS seals with eventually fail, even if you change it out with a new OEM unit. 

they said that it will help if you drive the nuts off the engine as it will cool/lubricate the IMS using engine oil.

there's a vendor online that has upgraded IMS bearings with open seal design with ceramic bearings.   if you replace OEM with these, it should last much longer than OE seal/bearing. (but there's still some chance that IMS can fail.)

[lebowski]

Hypothetically, if you preemptively replace the original IMS bearing before it goes bad, would that be an effective, permanent fix? Or will it still only be a matter of time before the replacement bearing also goes bad?

I'd like to know that too. Any Porsche guru's out there?

from the links previously posted by another member, 'rrocket' regarding this, i gathered that all OEM IMS seals with eventually fail, even if you change it out with a new OEM unit. 

they said that it will help if you drive the nuts off the engine as it will cool/lubricate the IMS using engine oil.

there's a vendor online that has upgraded IMS bearings with open seal design with ceramic bearings.   if you replace OEM with these, it should last much longer than OE seal/bearing. (but there's still some chance that IMS can fail.)

Great info, thanks very much

[johngenx]

Yes, the upgraded non-OE IMS ceramic bearing made by LN is NOT a permanent fix.  Estimates seem that it lasts 4-5x as long as the stupid OE bearing.  Anyone that replaces the original bearing with another OE bearing is an idiot.  I wonder what dealers do, as Porsche is playing ostrich on this one, insisting there is no problem.

It's about $2K or so to swap the bearing.  Do a rear main seal too at the very least.

[chrischasescars]

Awesome review/article Chris! 

Thanks, Steve. 

Nice to see some productive discussion happening here, too.

[ArticSteve]

Just to put a downer on ppl's Boxster dreams tonight  I flipped thru Pelican Parts and a complete clutch kit averages $1500. USD  The IMS thing is $600.  So delivered to Ontario with tax and duty your looking at $2600. with CDN dollar 2 cents above par.  Then I read that one should think about replacing the coolant tank while the tranny is out @ $250.00 USD.  This is all based on doing the work yourself.

Most good independents won't use customer parts, or if they do there is no warranty and they will just jack the labour cost accordingly.  I figure in Ontario, a full clutch and IMS job with tax will run $6k.

Such is the world of used Porsches.