Topic: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Lexus ES300h; Day 1

[Autos_Editor]

James initial impressions of the redesigned and newly-hybridized Lexus ES sedan are, shall we say, positive.
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[sailor723]

I'm always interested where the luxury Japanese lines (unlike the Germans) offer some models based on their mainstream cars. it would be interesting to see some info on how this compares (and differs) from a loaded up Camry hybrid XLE and what you get for the extra 15K or so.

[whaddaiknow]

James initial impressions of the redesigned and newly-hybridized Lexus ES sedan are, shall we say, positive.
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James, really looking forward to your review.
Curious if the 4-pot makes it feel less "refined" compared to the V6 and if the low-end torque is there. Or does it feel underpowered?
Is it completely disconnected? Any improvements in handling compared to the previous model you tested a year ago?

Thanks

[Fobroader]

So a fully loaded Camry hybrid differs how??

[wing]

Well I'd have to see them side by side and drive them but I don't think they compare much actually.

The Lexus is better styled, better on the inside, I'm sure it's larger ... certainly seems massive but been awhile since I had a new camry (6 months?).  There are more features for sure, cooled seats, 15 speaker mark levinston, real leather seats, not suede trimmed in the XLE etc etc.

Sorry folks, they are not the same car, despite sharing a drivetrain.

[TheHire]

So a fully loaded Camry hybrid differs how??

Different platform. The ES is based on the Avalon. Roomier, more comfortable, even smoother to drive. The new ES is definitely a bit more upmarket than the last one.

[ArticSteve]

Different platform. The ES is based on the Avalon. Roomier, more comfortable, even smoother to drive. The new ES is definitely a bit more upmarket than the last one.

You gotta be careful about Toyota marketing speak.  The Avalon is still a modified Camry.  I was at the KY plant about a month ago and what you see is a Camry, Venza and Avalon following each other all getting exactly the same guts.  All they do is alter the floor pans and then of course install various bodies on them.  The "platform" is different only because Toyota needs to differentiate for marketing purposes an Avalon from a Camry, and by extension, a Lexus.

The ES, whatever model, is Japanese thru an thru.  They are not assembled as fast and some of the parts will have higher tolerances.  The Nav/touch screens come from different suppliers, etc.  And of course they are insulated better.

The only downside to the 300H is it's slower than the Camry XLE Hybrid due to the extra weight.

 

[ArticSteve]

Well I'd have to see them side by side and drive them but I don't think they compare much actually.

The Lexus is better styled, better on the inside, I'm sure it's larger ... certainly seems massive but been awhile since I had a new camry (6 months?).  There are more features for sure, cooled seats, 15 speaker mark levinston, real leather seats, not suede trimmed in the XLE etc etc.

Sorry folks, they are not the same car, despite sharing a drivetrain.

Certainly not the same car.  The top trimmed H300 is 20K plus tax more than a full jam TCH.  Every conceivable gadget.  The base H300 is 11K more with tax factored in.  So it's all about the size of your wallet.  In the case of this H300 it will be all about the size of the lease payment.

 real leather seats, not suede trimmed in the XLE etc etc.   

Firstly, there is Toyota leather and then there is Lexus leather.   Not from the same world.  Toyota could be synthetic and it would be no surprise.

Secondly, the suede trim seats have turned out to be a bit of genius on Toyotas part since their leather stinks.  The seat heaters transmit thru the suede fast.   Takes more than a week of driving to work to realize this.       

[hemusbull]

The ES previously was probably the only luxury cruiser using regular grade fuel! What about the ES300h?

[ArticSteve]

All Toyota hybrids use 87.

[Northernridge]

I drove a previous gen ES and while nice I thought it was inferior to the Acura TL which was similar in price. There was also way too much wind and road noise.

[dirtyjeffer]

one of the guys at work had an ES hybrid as a loaner when his RX was getting its oil changed and winter tires installed...it looked great (i thought he bought a new car).

[TheHire]

I drove a previous gen ES and while nice I thought it was inferior to the Acura TL which was similar in price. There was also way too much wind and road noise.

The previous-gen ES was definitely inferior to the TL. Nicer leather or not, that car was clearly a gussied-up Camry. The premise of the ES is a bit different than the TL; the ES doesn't try in any way to be sporty (nor does it succeed at being so). The TL is a bit more involving to drive for sure, but while they are competitors to some extent, they're two vastly different cars.

[Fobroader]

I drove a previous gen ES and while nice I thought it was inferior to the Acura TL which was similar in price. There was also way too much wind and road noise.

The previous-gen ES was definitely inferior to the TL. Nicer leather or not, that car was clearly a gussied-up Camry. The premise of the ES is a bit different than the TL; the ES doesn't try in any way to be sporty (nor does it succeed at being so). The TL is a bit more involving to drive for sure, but while they are competitors to some extent, they're two vastly different cars.

The Lexus is clearly a Japanese Buick/Oldsmobile, sounds like a perfect retiree car.

[whaddaiknow]

The Lexus is clearly a Japanese Buick/Oldsmobile, sounds like a perfect retiree car.

I'm not planning to retire any time soon but I"d love to have the ES as my daily driver.
Just because the car isn't sporty doesn't make it a retiree car.
My commute is 75km per day in heavy bumper to bumper traffic. So early in the morning when I'm still "waking up" and after a full work day when I'm tired, a nice quiet cushy pampered ride home is all I really want before my kids drain me of whatever energy I have left. Nothing to do with retirement.

[Northernridge]

I drove a previous gen ES and while nice I thought it was inferior to the Acura TL which was similar in price. There was also way too much wind and road noise.

The previous-gen ES was definitely inferior to the TL. Nicer leather or not, that car was clearly a gussied-up Camry. The premise of the ES is a bit different than the TL; the ES doesn't try in any way to be sporty (nor does it succeed at being so). The TL is a bit more involving to drive for sure, but while they are competitors to some extent, they're two vastly different cars.

Agreed. Yet they are (or were) similar in price, size, configuration and share many features. I happened to drive them in close proximity and thought both in the ball park of what I might like...nice mid-sized sedan for a daily driver. After the drives though I couldn't imagine buying the ES over the TL. But alas, neither was German so I moved along. 

[rrocket]

I drove a previous gen ES and while nice I thought it was inferior to the Acura TL which was similar in price. There was also way too much wind and road noise.

The previous-gen ES was definitely inferior to the TL. Nicer leather or not, that car was clearly a gussied-up Camry. The premise of the ES is a bit different than the TL; the ES doesn't try in any way to be sporty (nor does it succeed at being so). The TL is a bit more involving to drive for sure, but while they are competitors to some extent, they're two vastly different cars.

Agreed. Yet they are (or were) similar in price, size, configuration and share many features. I happened to drive them in close proximity and thought both in the ball park of what I might like...nice mid-sized sedan for a daily driver. After the drives though I couldn't imagine buying the ES over the TL. But alas, neither was German so I moved along. 

Yep, not German so they're actually reliable.

[sailor723]

Same old story....give up all the desireable driving feel and interior design attributes for reliability or give up reliability to get that Euro look/feel.

I wish someone would build a car that actually had both. 

[wing]

The GS is not void of feel.  Different car different market

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[Northernridge]

The GS is not void of feel.  Different car different market

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

I'm intrigued by the new GS and looking forward to driving one. I've passed on the whole ES concept. Actually the new LS has me curious as well.