Topic: Consumer Advice: Used Turbo Cars 101

[Autos_Editor]

Our top tips for maximum confidence in buying and owning a used car with a turbocharger.

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[ChaosphereIX]

great article! Turbos are not scary and don't mean unreliability is bound to be an issue in a used car. My Saab 9-3 has been tuned for most of the time I have owned it, and it is still going strong. I totally agree on the maintenance, though. Quality full synthetic like Mobil 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple, or Rotella T6 is required, should be changed at least every 8k, as well as all turbo cars should be using the recommended gas grade.

Nothing replaces the rush you get from a turbo car, and I will always be driving one. Tuning, when professionally done, is completely safe as long as the car was only taken to Stage 1 or so. That Cobalt must have been tuned by a hack or with a manual boost controller, no supporting mods, and was taken to stupid levels of power. Even a na engine can easily blow it's bottom end if you exceed the safe limit of its engine tolerances, it is just easier to do that in a turbo. Ecotec turbo engines are blastproof as long as you are not an idiot, which the owner of that particular one might have been.

Loved the article, who is writing the one on superchargers now?

[redman]

For those who like long term vehicles, I would suggest they save turbo's for their diesels 

[nlm]

Good article, thanks for the useful info! How does one guard against a used turbo where the driver used a cobb access port to increase the boost but brought back to oem spec for the sale? If all of the inspection tips check out I guess the turbocharger is still decent?

[aaronk]

Very informative, thanks for putting this together. I think some used turbo cars are more likely to be abused than others and should likely be purchased more carefully. A Volvo 2.5T AWD likely wouldn't have seen a life of clutch dropping or backroad hooning, but a MazdaSpeed3, Cobalt SS or WRX STI would warrant a more careful inspection.

[Snowman]

Good article  like nlm stated mild stage 1 ecu tuning is low risk with minimal consequences. Stage 2 with with intake and exhaust plumbing will increase risk and reduce engine life. A stage 3 with fuel injectors, pumps, headers, and  intercoolers will cut life by 50% or more and if not properly installed and dyno tuned could be terminal.

My Stage 2 STi blew #4 a year after it was traded in for the TTRS. Excessive heat from the down pipe was the culprit.

[ChaosphereIX]

Good article  like nlm stated mild stage 1 ecu tuning is low risk with minimal consequences. Stage 2 with with intake and exhaust plumbing will increase risk and reduce engine life. A stage 3 with fuel injectors, pumps, headers, and  intercoolers will cut life by 50% or more and if not properly installed and dyno tuned could be terminal.

My Stage 2 STi blew #4 a year after it was traded in for the TTRS. Excessive heat from the down pipe was the culprit.

it was me, but I will let it slide...[someone finally agreed with me, so I have to chest thump when I can  ]

yes taking a car past stage 1 basically means you are selling a project car at a greatly reduced price to a new owner [if you are lucky you can get higher if it is a fellow tuner from your forums for example], or you are going to be keeping it for some time.

and nlm, I am not sure how you can detect a tuned car that has been accessported and then returned to stock. If there is no hardware on the car, chances are it was a mild stage 1 tune, which is perfectly safe and doesnt push the turbo or the motor too hard [as long as it was cared for]. As Snow said, if there is hard stuff added on like intake/exhaust/injectors, then watch out because the boost is way up and the clutch/rods/valves/turbo will be worked pretty hard. Underhood heat is a real killer in turbo cars, and tuning only makes it worse. That is why anything over stage 1 should have an upgraded intercooler [depending on the stock one]. But still cooking the battery, frying coils, and other issues arise from excessive underhood heat.

Also avoid cars with atmospheric dump valves added on when they should not be there [like on cars with the Mitsu TD04 turbos - which are on just about any 2.0L turbo out there] as they were desigend to work with recirculating bypass valves, and to change that is toying with fate.

[Threader]

[quote author=ChaosphereIX link=topic=83248.msg877240#msg877240 date=1366294636
yes taking a car past stage 1 basically means you are selling a project car at a greatly reduced price to a new owner [if you are lucky you can get higher if it is a fellow tuner from your forums for example], or you are going to be keeping it for some time.
[/quote]

My STI has an ungodly amount of money invested in it and is currently making about 40% more power than stock. It was re-built and then subsequently slightly re-modfied by 2 highly reputable American and Canadian tuner companies (Rallispec and Lachute Performance). My new Rallispec Shortblock was built and spec to handle 600HP. All supporting modifications were added and over-overspecified by my request for plenty of headroom for safe power and future tweaks.

The only weak link might be the original OEM clutch but it is surprisingly holding up well to current power levels even with a few yearly visits to the drag strip.

In a nutshell this car would never sell for equal or less than a stock STI. If the noob doesn't understand what they are looking at they better just move on to the used car lot at their friendly neighborhood Subaru dealership.

I liked the article and it was generally well written.

[ChaosphereIX]

[quote author=ChaosphereIX link=topic=83248.msg877240#msg877240 date=1366294636
yes taking a car past stage 1 basically means you are selling a project car at a greatly reduced price to a new owner [if you are lucky you can get higher if it is a fellow tuner from your forums for example], or you are going to be keeping it for some time.

My STI has an ungodly amount of money invested in it and is currently making about 40% more power than stock. It was re-built and then subsequently slightly re-modfied by 2 highly reputable American and Canadian tuner companies (Rallispec and Lachute Performance). My new Rallispec Shortblock was built and spec to handle 600HP. All supporting modifications were added and over-overspecified by my request for plenty of headroom for safe power and future tweaks.

The only weak link might be the original OEM clutch but it is surprisingly holding up well to current power levels even with a few yearly visits to the drag strip.

In a nutshell this car would never sell for equal or less than a stock STI. If the noob doesn't understand what they are looking at they better just move on to the used car lot at their friendly neighborhood Subaru dealership.

I liked the article and it was generally well written.
[/quote]
of course it is worth a lot - to non-"noob" buyers. An ordinary buyer would not touch your car with a ten foot pole unless they were looking for a track car. To ordinary buyers, mods only kill resale value.

[jamesautos]

Tuned turbo... When it comes time to liquidate your car...Either you sell at great lost or you sit on it until someone who appreciate it comes along (can be a long wait or never)... If you tune a turbo be prepared to keep it for life or until the engine blows coz you will never recoup the money you out into the car... Personally I would rather buy a stock unmodded well maintained turbo and mod it myself... So I know what goes into it...

[ChaosphereIX]

Tuned turbo... When it comes time to liquidate your car...Either you sell at great lost or you sit on it until someone who appreciate it comes along (can be a long wait or never)... If you tune a turbo be prepared to keep it for life or until the engine blows coz you will never recoup the money you out into the car... Personally I would rather buy a stock unmodded well maintained turbo and mod it myself... So I know what goes into it...

or you can keep everything stealth and nobody is the wiser...but putting on a body kit, cone filter, fart cans, and a massive psssshhhhhh dump valve on kinda gives things away...

Nobody would guess me Saab is tuned, because externally I have left it stock, and the intake is efficient enough that it does not need a cone or CAI - just a performance filter. Looks and sounds stock, and feels stock until you bury the right foot...

[Snowman]

All my modified WRX's and STi were sold modified and the buyers specifically requested the mods not be removed. There is a market out there for modified turbo cars if they are done properly. Unfortunately newer models have less potential as manufactures are cutting costs by reducing tolerances. Audi ECU's now need to be bench tuned by removing the chip, no more plug and play.

[ChaosphereIX]

All my modified WRX's and STi were sold modified and the buyers specifically requested the mods not be removed. There is a market out there for modified turbo cars if they are done properly. Unfortunately newer models have less potential as manufactures are cutting costs by reducing tolerances. Audi ECU's now need to be bench tuned by removing the chip, no more plug and play.

when did that start? A friend's 10 S4 was tuned through the port easily...Sucks that they are doing that - Audis easily have some of the best Stage 1 gains out there...

[safristi]

Keep it well oiled and buy into  the COOL down process he says.(how many have the patience !!?? ) it's only 2 minutes..(.but but i could rescue a damsel or the World in that time )........ I.agree........now those STAGERS one two !! meh  #3 unbuckle yer wallet NO WAY HOSER 'eh are one prayer away from disaster if they KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.. not all are as spendy as Rrocket and Snowballs with dyno etc to back up their shyte...........

[Spec5]

Nice article, its almost like you're speaking from personal experience!

[greengs]

My previous car was the 335i and it ran the water pump after you shut the car off to cool the turbos so you didn't have to keep running the car. 

[ChaosphereIX]

My previous car was the 335i and it ran the water pump after you shut the car off to cool the turbos so you didn't have to keep running the car.

most modern turbos dont need that kind of turbo timer. Just dont kane it right before you turn it off, let it idle for like 30 seconds, and you are all good. This also prevents you being in boost when you turn it off - very bad. In the early 90s you would have to wait for quite a while, but that isnt an issue anymore really. Just take the drive up the lane easy, wait a few seconds while you check your hair and teeth, then you are all good.

[Snowman]

All my modified WRX's and STi were sold modified and the buyers specifically requested the mods not be removed. There is a market out there for modified turbo cars if they are done properly. Unfortunately newer models have less potential as manufactures are cutting costs by reducing tolerances. Audi ECU's now need to be bench tuned by removing the chip, no more plug and play.

when did that start? A friend's 10 S4 was tuned through the port easily...Sucks that they are doing that - Audis easily have some of the best Stage 1 gains out there...

I found a place locally that will bench tune behind the firewall. There is always a solution 

[Noto]

"Neglect and modifications can burn a turbocharger up faster than a Russian meteorite,"


...oooh, ouch...too soon?   

I still would have a tough time buying a used turbo - just too much fun to drive like a granny.  My buddy blew the turbo in his Volvo S60 T5 and now the car's up for sale...so much for that theory.

[mixmanmash]

Tuned turbo... When it comes time to liquidate your car...Either you sell at great lost or you sit on it until someone who appreciate it comes along (can be a long wait or never)... If you tune a turbo be prepared to keep it for life or until the engine blows coz you will never recoup the money you out into the car... Personally I would rather buy a stock unmodded well maintained turbo and mod it myself... So I know what goes into it...

or you can keep everything stealth and nobody is the wiser...but putting on a body kit, cone filter, fart cans, and a massive psssshhhhhh dump valve on kinda gives things away...

Nobody would guess me Saab is tuned, because externally I have left it stock, and the intake is efficient enough that it does not need a cone or CAI - just a performance filter. Looks and sounds stock, and feels stock until you bury the right foot...

That's like my 300ZX.  Looks stock, but does this on Mohawk 94 (Green, Red was pre-cam gear tuning):


Best part is I built the engine to take larger turbo upgrades.  I could go Garrett GTX2867s and make 800+ on pump.  All I need is the turbos and larger injectors.