Topic: Used Vehicle Review: Honda Odyssey, 2005-2010

[Autos_Editor]

Contributing Editor, Chris Chase, outlines potential trouble-spots and possible fixes for Honda's popular minivan, and notes that Odyssey resale values "will be more expensive than anything built in Korea and North America."

Read More...

[Gardiner Westbound]

Defective power sliding doors, failed hydraulic tailgate struts, bad third row seat latch mechanisms, whining power steering pumps and suspect automatic transmissions. I'm old enough to remember when Hondas were sturdy, reliable and durable!

[Ron]

Canadian fuel consumption estimates are still off.
USA ratings are 13.8/9.4 with VCM.

I remember when they advertised over a 1000km range on the 2008's.  NO way can you come even close in the real world.


Otherwise it has been a solid vehicle.

[Railton]

I'm old enough to remember Honda's ad slogan - "We make it simple".
Railton

[whaddaiknow]

I was just on the market for a minivan last July.
I really wanted an Odyssey. Went to 3 different dealerships in Ottawa and test drove 4 different vans. All were '06 models priced from $17,500 to $19,000. ALL 4 had power steering problems! The sales girl at the Nissan dealership tried to convince me it was normal (yeah, right) but then called a Honda dealership and the mechanic there told her that it was a common issue with the Odyssey.

Then I took one of them (from a different dealership) to a mechanic, paid $90 for the inspection and then returned the van back to the dealer. I figured to put any of those vans on the road I would have to invest at least another $1,000 (power steering fixes and brake service) so the total out-the-door price would be close to $22,000 for the cheapest one I looked at with 106,000km on the odometer.

Went home very disappointed and lost. I really wanted an Odyssey but what I heard from the mechanic and the extra expenses I would have to incur caught me completely offguard. Mind you, 4 different vans at 3 different dealerships in one day, all having their share of problems.

Then just for the heck of it looked in usedottawa.com and found an '07 Hyundai Entourage (1 year newer) with less mileage than all the Odyssey's I had looked at, 16 months left on a bumper to bumper warranty, and all the options I wanted. All for the asking price of $14,000. That plus tax saved me ~$6,000 and the bumper-to-bumper warranty and 5-star crash rating gave me the peace of mind. That was a no-brainer.

Yes, I still wanted an Odyssey (mostly for the image part of it that says I'm driving the best minivan on the market) but the voice of reason is telling me I made the right choice, and image and reality are not necessarily related.

And the CRAPPY audio system in the Odussey? That was another major turn-off.

The dealer (Hyundai dealer at that) installed new tires, new brake rotors and pads, new windshield (there was a tiny chip on it so they replaced it), completed a full inspection, the van is spotless clean and drives like new.

I intend to run this van to the ground and use the 6 grand I saved on a couple of family trips to Mexico.

Sounds like a Hyundai commercial? Maybe but that was my experience. And the fact that all 4 vans that I test drove that day had power steering problems scared me off.

Love the look of the new Odyssey though

[bikenut]

j.d power report on the reliability of 3 year old vehicles , in this case 2007 models  reported on in 2010
the top 3 in reliability in each class after 3 years of driving , scan down to the mini van class , you will see honda did not make the top 3 most reliable in the mini van list
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2010-Vehicle-Dependability-Study-Results/page-3/

[Shnak]

j.d power report on the reliability of 3 year old vehicles , in this case 2007 models  reported on in 2010
the top 3 in reliability in each class after 3 years of driving , scan down to the mini van class , you will see honda did not make the top 3 most reliable in the mini van list
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2010-Vehicle-Dependability-Study-Results/page-3/

Minivan
Ford Freestar
Toyota Sienna
Buick Terraza (tie)
Chrysler Town & Country (tie)

For some reason, I'm inclined NOT to trust that list... 

[MKII]

Interesting wrte Chris to say the least. Majority is explaining how to do it yourself fixing all the problems, half a page of recalls and in the middle that Consumers rates it average to above average. And your conclusion that the Odyssey is your best choice because the others are even worse.

If Consumers ratings are based on a percentage of actual owners input, it appears that Odyssey owners either do not participate or if they do participate they do not mention their problems.

[bikenut]

consumer reports versus j.d. power
http://www.drivingtelevision.tv/?cid=793&search_text=jd%20power&search_type=any&task=search

[Sival]

Canadian fuel consumption estimates are still off.
USA ratings are 13.8/9.4 with VCM.

I remember when they advertised over a 1000km range on the 2008's.  NO way can you come even close in the real world.


Otherwise it has been a solid vehicle.

The Canadian ratings aren't "off", they simply test in a better condition, what the car may obtain if driven carefully. If people can't match them, they have only themselves to blame, or they go through crawling congestion for much of their trips.

The American ratings have the disadvantage of comforting people in their bad driving habits, making them believe that such poor fuel economy is "normal". If you drive in a minimally fuel-conscious manner, you will beat American ratings easily.

In terms of comparing cars with each other, both ratings do their jobs well and agree in 95% of situations (a car 10% more efficient than another in the American tests will normally be 10% better in the Canadian tests also).

[Spec5]

I love these used vehicle reviews. Also nice to hear whaddaiknow's personal experience - well justified for grabbing the Hyundai for sure!

To people whining about reliability - look these aren't toasters - there's tons of moving parts - all built by the lowest bidder - REGARDLESS OF MAKE. We're all computer types here - you think Dell, HP, Gateway, Acer, etc. all make their own motherboards? No way - its all outsourced so many brands will have similar issues - MOST of which aren't a big deal. I mean really - breaking the cable on the folding seat? Probably caused from too many 5 year old yankin' on the things when they're having a fit trying to fold their younger brother into the floor in the seat in front of them. Its not a big deal... Hydraulics on the rear hatch? Big deal - 10 minute fix - short of putting a Marzochi Bomber shock on there (thats the for the MTB guys on the forum) those are going to fail every few years - its a big ass heavy door - its got a lot of pressure it in - it cycles from 40 to -40 degree weather - seals WILL leak! As for power sliding doors - wow I called it the first time I saw one of those "those will last like a year". I mean really, between kids playing with them - sticking loose change and little brothers on the tracks to see what the door will do and the natural beating those motors take having to move a door that size 50 bazillion times (frozen solid for 4 months of the year as well) a year they're gonna fail. If all we had to worry about in modern times was the engine, trans and body like they did 20 years ago there'd never be any issues. But as we demand more and more crap in our vehicles stuff like this is gonna happen - regardless of make.

The tranny and power steering issues - those I agree are more serious. But still the Dodge Caravan had tranny issues for like 10 years and they NEVER fixed them - yet they make top 5 most realible on someone's list? At least Honda fixed it subsequent years.

What the heck am I doing? I don't even like Honda...

[Spec5]

The Canadian ratings aren't "off", they simply test in a better condition, what the car may obtain if driven carefully. If people can't match them, they have only themselves to blame, or they go through crawling congestion for much of their trips.

The American ratings have the disadvantage of comforting people in their bad driving habits, making them believe that such poor fuel economy is "normal". If you drive in a minimally fuel-conscious manner, you will beat American ratings easily.

In terms of comparing cars with each other, both ratings do their jobs well and agree in 95% of situations (a car 10% more efficient than another in the American tests will normally be 10% better in the Canadian tests also).

I saw a program on this or read an article in CD that was really good. In the US the legislation is ridiculous when it comes to measuring MPG. Their "test" is based on a pre-configured program that only a handful of "drivers" are certified to run. The "test" is so old it doesn't really take into account the bumper to bumper traffic of modern commuting so thats why the US numbers are always so good.

[dkaz]

Why do I not have any problems meeting Canadian fuel economy figures then? Except when I'm going 140km/h, then my fuel economy starts to hurt.

The advantage is that since Ecomodder uses American fuel economy figures, I'm considered a Hypermiler.

[Sival]

The Canadian ratings aren't "off", they simply test in a better condition, what the car may obtain if driven carefully. If people can't match them, they have only themselves to blame, or they go through crawling congestion for much of their trips.

The American ratings have the disadvantage of comforting people in their bad driving habits, making them believe that such poor fuel economy is "normal". If you drive in a minimally fuel-conscious manner, you will beat American ratings easily.

In terms of comparing cars with each other, both ratings do their jobs well and agree in 95% of situations (a car 10% more efficient than another in the American tests will normally be 10% better in the Canadian tests also).

I saw a program on this or read an article in CD that was really good. In the US the legislation is ridiculous when it comes to measuring MPG. Their "test" is based on a pre-configured program that only a handful of "drivers" are certified to run. The "test" is so old it doesn't really take into account the bumper to bumper traffic of modern commuting so thats why the US numbers are always so good.

Your source must be old because the test has been changed in 2007 and now the US numbers are not good, they're bad. For example, they say that the Matrix should only get 31 MPG on the highway, so around 7,5 l/100 Km. Ask any Matrix driver what they get, you'll see they have no problem beating that on pure highway, even some in mixed driving.

The test is based on a pre-configured program and needs specially qualified drivers, this is to make sure that results are coherent by controlling factors that can impact on fuel economy. You can't just go outside and drive 15 minutes and there's your test. Even if you keep the same road, temperature and wind can bias results by as much as 20% without problem, and that's without counting the difference between driving styles of different drivers. The test are mostly there to allow comparisons, and that they tend to do well, even if I think that SUVs might be advantaged by the testing and cars a bit disadvantaged.

It's up to people to find out what situation corresponds to the ratings. I mean, driving at 120 Km/h instead of 100 Km/h impacts fuel economy negatively by 15 to 20%, so there isn't only one "highway fuel consumption" rating that fits all Canadian drivers' driving style on the highway. It's even worse in the city, aggressive driving can increase fuel consumption by as much as 30% in city driving (as proven by Edmunds' test of the "tips"*).

As it stands, if you're a conservation-minded driver, you can go by the Canadian ratings, if you're an aggressive driver who drives wastefully, go by the American ratings. Both are representative if you drive in a certain way.

*http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/106842/article.html

[chrischasescars]

Interesting wrte Chris to say the least. Majority is explaining how to do it yourself fixing all the problems, half a page of recalls and in the middle that Consumers rates it average to above average. And your conclusion that the Odyssey is your best choice because the others are even worse.

If Consumers ratings are based on a percentage of actual owners input, it appears that Odyssey owners either do not participate or if they do participate they do not mention their problems.

Like I said in a column I wrote about the Toyota Sienna a while back, the golden age of the Japanese auto industry is long over. The cars are still good, and are generally more reliable than their competitors, but it's obvious that the Japanese manufacturers aren't building vehicles the way they used to.

[2JDM]

We have a 2005 Odyssey EX, bought new. About 110 km at the moment. Extremely practical vehicle...we love it.

Issues (fixed under warranty):

1) Power steering pump whine (replaced pump twice)
2) Exhaust drone (updated exhaust piping)
3) Horn didn't work (horn replaced)
4) Windshield whistling (moldings replaced)

Issues currently:

Rattles

Our 1998 Sienna (which was traded in), only had 1 issue: rattles.

[PJungnitsch]

Just checked True Delta and it reports about half the repair trips for the Odyssey as compared to the Kia Sedona or the Chrysler vans.

The Sienna has about half again the repair frequency as the Odyssey.

About the same results as CR, IIRC.

[johngenx]

We have a Maytag Fridge.  It's not fancy, I have to make my own ice, but it keeps our food cold/frozen and in the 12 years we've owned it, it has worked the same since the day it arrived home.  No service, nothing broken, a few light bulbs replaced, and that's it.

Cars have never been like this.  I think the newest cars are the closest, and anyone that thinks cars are not better than ever is either very young, or is of poor memory.  We've owned various German, Japanese and American cars manufactured from the 1970's until 2009.  Yes, some brands have stumbled, but overall, cars are 1000X better than when I started buying cars.

Now, the real problem in complexity.  Complex cars have always been less reliable than simple cars, in general terms.  For all of their history, buying a flagship Mercedes meant you were going to have many more problems than their entry level, simple, models.  Same has been true for every marque, regardless of era.  So, when Mercedes brought "S-Class" complexity to the C-Class in model year 2001, it didn't go very well.  People expected a C-Class to be a pretty reliable vehicle.  

The Japanese makes did a better job of adding complexity to the entry-level luxury market, but in reality, if you compared a 2001 C320 to a 2001 IS300, the Mercedes has much more items such as motorized doors to direct the ACC system (over two dozen!) to electronic modules that interact to control everything from the power windows to the defroster.  The Mercedes automatic transmission is more complex.  Heck, the sunroof switch is ridiculously complicated with a whole computer system to ensure you can't close the thing with someone sticking out the roof.  Crazy!

So, in 2001, the Lexus IS300 turned out to be much more reliable than the C320.  Complex = things to go wrong.

Flash forward about a decade.  Today, people that pay $40-60K for a mini-van expect a ton of luxury features for their money.  They want all the crap that an S-Class has.  They have grown too weak to pull doors open or closed.  They want an ACC system than can have heat at one vent and ice cold air at another.  They want multi-media systems.  They want large V-6 engines with gazillion-speed automatics that fill engine bays.  They want two dozen air bags that are smart enough to know the size of the person the bag is trying to protect, and they want the bad to deploy differently depending on that size.

They want very complex vehicles and they compare the reliability to the 1999 Corolla they drove before they had kids.  Remember that Corolla?  It had one airbag.  ABS?  Nope.  Either an old-school hydraulic four speed AT that had been pretty much perfected in 1988, or a manual transmission.  Maybe it had AC, but a simple manual one with levers that operated the vents, and you moved those levers.  If you did have power windows, they weren't part of a computerized "bus" system, but instead a simple motor, switch, fuse and some power.  You had to open and close the doors yourself!  Oh, the humanity!!

How many people do you see on the side of the road today, hood up, trying to figure out why they're stranded?  Damn few.  CAA deals mostly with flat tires and out-of-gas.  Even with all this massive increase in complexity to mass-market vehicles, they sure operate more like my Maytag Fridge than like the cars I grew up with.

The reason that Toyota and Honda don't have the advantage they once had is that ALL cars, regardless of make (yes, even Chrysler...) have gotten so much better, it's insane.  There is also the power of the internet.  Today, we can communicate quickly about problems, and this combined with people's expectation that every part on their car perform flawlessly for one million kilometers, means things look bad, fast.

How often do we get posts like "my 1997 Accord with ONLY 290,000km has a broken alternator/axle/whatever, can you believe what a piece of crap Accords are, why won't Honda fix it for free even if it is out of warranty, and why isn't there a recall on it?"  Seriously, I just tune those threads out now, ignoring them.  Go to Edmunds, etc, and those are 99% of the posts.

Remember when cars were mechanical things that needed attention in terms of service and repairs?  Oh, and since the beginning of the automobile industry, and this includes the period of "the golden age of Japanese cars" ALL makes made goofs, and this will continue...

[bikenut]

johny , good write , i agree almost 100 % with what you said except for a couple of things
i don't see many users reviews , if any like the one you stated

 (and just to comment on someone's prev post - user reviews are on the net such as
http://www.carsurvey.org/  that might be more to your liking)

like this one
How often do we get posts like "my 1997 Accord with ONLY 290,000km has a broken alternator/axle/whatever, can you believe what a piece of crap Accords are, why won't Honda fix it for free even if it is out of warranty, and why isn't there a recall on it?"

but i do see reports of failed trannys -- honda had a 7 year secret warrantee to cover alot of their faulty automatic trans that could fail as early as 60 -70,000 km  - i think thats right on the kms

you are perfectly right --" the others got better ", but it was more than that , -- toyota new president said something like -- we have lost our way we will now put everything into making our cars reliable again

- putting profits no 1 ahead of the consumer , cutting corners on their race to be no 1 was their main reason for all these recalls , - as well as their current problem of big itis

honda on the other hand decided to sit on their ass -- hasn't even developed d.i motors yet ( except their hybrids , which don't do well , ) while most of the main car makers are getting into them
fords doing great , doing di to their new engines , mazda will have their di's here soon - lots of others to 
 honda even had to postpone the release of their civic , pathetic , wake up honda !
their si can't sell in europe anymore because the engine can't pass

honda , who is a master engine buider , who builds great engines ,  and builds more engines  than ANY car company in the world , can't make cars that pass or di motors now -- the last company in a million yrs i would suspect of this happenning to
then theres hyundai - i wouldn't have paid them the time of day as little as 5 yrs ago
 who i would expect to have the REAL problems of passing their engines with the stuff they were turning out ,with the tougher regs passes with flying colours 

all cars are much better today , with reliability ratings growing as well with each gen too
complexity plays a big role in things that go wrong as you stated , but its a little more to that

to keep prices down , because of intense competition , honda and toyota - and others are putting pressure on their suppliers to make parts for less and less , this in turn forces suppliers , to make inferior parts compared to past parts to meet that price .

that is the real problem - the poor parts suppliers having to make as good a product as they can for less money and being unable to do it

personnally , i think toyota and honda have coasted on their reps too long and its come back to bite them in the ass
if both companies had the same attitude as they did in the early to mid -late 90's making the best cars they could , they wouldn't be in this mess to begin with
you made some very good points johnygenx

ha,ha,ha , the top 10 stolen cars in the u.s. in 09 include ,( maybe the car thieves know this too )
94 accord
95 honda civic
94 integra
91 camry

and then there's chrysler , who's employees take pride in their work - busted
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/23/chrysler-uaw-employees-work-hard-play-hard-bus/

lastly ,despite my bashing,  honda and toyota still make good cars

[Spec5]

Well said bikenut...

I guess now we know why Dodge/Chrysler is dead last in reliability - pretty tough to put together a decent car when you're high and/or drunk.