Author Topic: Comparison Test: 2016 Jeep Wrangler Willys Wheeler vs Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk  (Read 11390 times)

Offline Autos_Editor

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Wrangler Willys and Cherokee Trailhawk pack huge capability from the mid-thirties ' but which to choose?
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Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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The rear locking differential kicks in smoothly, no input needed,

So it has an automatic locker, or a 'lunchbox locker', if you will?  I'm surprised to hear this, albeit slightly pleasantly so.  Maybe TooScoops can comment, considering he owns one...

Offline Gurgie

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The rear locking differential kicks in smoothly, no input needed,

So it has an automatic locker, or a 'lunchbox locker', if you will?  I'm surprised to hear this, albeit slightly pleasantly so.  Maybe TooScoops can comment, considering he owns one...

It's just a limited slip rear differential as far as I know, not a true locker like on the Rubicon.
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Offline Winterpeg

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Justin, did you drive at night and if so how are the headlights? The Cherokee with that, ummmm ...."interesting" front end.
         Also how did the auto trans in the Cherokee perform?
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Offline paul246

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The Willy's Wheeler does not come with a locker or a locking rear diff, it comes with a limited slip rear axle. Big difference there.

Online Fobroader

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Limited Slip diff in the rear of the Willys, just like my wifes. Between the two, of course the Wrangler will do better offroad, its a real Jeep, with a real transfer case and actual axles, doesn't need some half assed computer program to actually make it go forward. I am still angry at Jeep for sullying the good name of the Cherokee with this wannabe, should have called it a Liberty as that name was already synonymous with crap  ;D
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Offline paul246

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Limited Slip diff in the rear of the Willys, just like my wifes. Between the two, of course the Wrangler will do better offroad, its a real Jeep, with a real transfer case and actual axles, doesn't need some half assed computer program to actually make it go forward. I am still angry at Jeep for sullying the good name of the Cherokee with this wannabe, should have called it a Liberty as that name was already synonymous with crap ;D

+1

Offline SaskSpecV

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Fun review.  My only quibble comes at the end - JP's theoretical 35K isn't getting him into either of these vehicles (in the tested trims), once taxes & fees are included.  And that's accounting for Chryco discounting, and removing some of the superfluous options.  Maybe a base Wrangler Unlimited with 6MT can be had for 35K all-in?  I'm sure a lower-trim (non-Trailhawk) Cherokee V6 can be.

Offline tooscoops

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ah, don't be so hard on the cherokee! it's what people want... i do agree about the name though... could have done something different there.

as for numbers... for sure the 35k won't get either, but it shouldn't... better to say somewhere in the low 40's. no cash off either model right now, 0% for 84 on the cherokee and 72 on the wrangler.

surprised the as tested willys got up there... mine listed out at 4600 or so and it's an unlimited with everything but the upgraded soft or hard tops (dual top, but the standard ones) and side air bags. stick too of course.

so you'd want something like mine justin? you can borrow it someday! i get to take the viper. (new ones on the right, old on the left) not black, but a dark blue...
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Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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The Willy's Wheeler does not come with a locker or a locking rear diff, it comes with a limited slip rear axle. Big difference there.

Well, that sounds more like it.  automatic lockers tend to have weird driving characteristics when doing the daily grind.  They're typically quite noisy and clunky when used on city streets.  You also can't accelerate around a corner with them, because they lock up under load.  They work perfectly fine if you know what you're doing, but would be quite disconcerting for somebody who doesn't know how to drive them.  It would have been a weird choice for a manufacturer like Chrysler to put them in a vehicle that will likely see 99% of its use on pavement and purchased by non-off-roaders.. 

Offline Gurgie

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ah, don't be so hard on the cherokee! it's what people want... i do agree about the name though... could have done something different there.

as for numbers... for sure the 35k won't get either, but it shouldn't... better to say somewhere in the low 40's. no cash off either model right now, 0% for 84 on the cherokee and 72 on the wrangler.

surprised the as tested willys got up there... mine listed out at 4600 or so and it's an unlimited with everything but the upgraded soft or hard tops (dual top, but the standard ones) and side air bags. stick too of course.

so you'd want something like mine justin? you can borrow it someday! i get to take the viper. (new ones on the right, old on the left) not black, but a dark blue...

tooscoops.... can we consider this pic of your new & old Jeep as your show n shine for the new ride?   :rofl2:

Offline tooscoops

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haha! maybe....

we'll see if i ever get around to it...

never really did one for the last one (think i added it to the previous s&s... i'm three cars back on show and shine...)

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Limited Slip diff in the rear of the Willys, just like my wifes. Between the two, of course the Wrangler will do better offroad, its a real Jeep, with a real transfer case and actual axles, doesn't need some half assed computer program to actually make it go forward. I am still angry at Jeep for sullying the good name of the Cherokee with this wannabe, should have called it a Liberty as that name was already synonymous with crap  ;D
Spoken like someone who has never driven one.
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Offline johngenx

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I understand the Cherokee is damned good in the rough stuff.  Better than almost any SUV - only the Wrangler and maybe a few others can best it - Powerwagon, etc.

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"A note, first: I drive a Dodge Viper – so I’m not easily fazed by operation of a vehicle that’s noisy, somewhat compromised and difficult to keep full of fuel, in exchange for some high-capability cool factor."- Justin P.

LOL, so tell me, how's that Viper in the winter, Mr. not easily fazed?

Offline paul246

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The Willy's Wheeler does not come with a locker or a locking rear diff, it comes with a limited slip rear axle. Big difference there.

Well, that sounds more like it.  automatic lockers tend to have weird driving characteristics when doing the daily grind.  They're typically quite noisy and clunky when used on city streets.  You also can't accelerate around a corner with them, because they lock up under load.  They work perfectly fine if you know what you're doing, but would be quite disconcerting for somebody who doesn't know how to drive them.  It would have been a weird choice for a manufacturer like Chrysler to put them in a vehicle that will likely see 99% of its use on pavement and purchased by non-off-roaders..

I have an Aussie auto-locker ( lunch box ) in the front axle of my Wrangler. It is invisible when driving in 2wd. Once 4wd is engaged it gets the job done. Love it.  :)

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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The Willy's Wheeler does not come with a locker or a locking rear diff, it comes with a limited slip rear axle. Big difference there.

Well, that sounds more like it.  automatic lockers tend to have weird driving characteristics when doing the daily grind.  They're typically quite noisy and clunky when used on city streets.  You also can't accelerate around a corner with them, because they lock up under load.  They work perfectly fine if you know what you're doing, but would be quite disconcerting for somebody who doesn't know how to drive them.  It would have been a weird choice for a manufacturer like Chrysler to put them in a vehicle that will likely see 99% of its use on pavement and purchased by non-off-roaders..

I have an Aussie auto-locker ( lunch box ) in the front axle of my Wrangler. It is invisible when driving in 2wd. Once 4wd is engaged it gets the job done. Love it.  :)

Well yeah, when you're in 2wd there is no power going to it so it doesn't lock.  A lunchbox works by locking when torque is applied, then decouples when torque application is removed.  Therefore, if you have a locker in the front, when you're driving around in 2wd no torque is being sent to the front diff so the lunchbox locker remains decoupled.  The problem arises when you have a lunchbox installed in the rear differential of a rear-drive vehicle (like a JEEP).  If you try accelerating around a corner, the applied torque will engage the locker and your tires will squeal, scrub, hop and jump.  You CAN drive with a Lunchbox in the rear, but you need to know that you must coast around corners, and only apply power when going straight.  This is why I found it suprising that Chrysler would install a lunchbox locker equivalent in the rear axle of one of their products (turns out they didn't, it was just a limited slip) when you consider that 'normal' people who wouldn't know how to drive a lunchbox locker will be driving it. 

The article was just wrong, and should have specified that the rear axle was a limited slip axle, rather than an 'automatic locker'.

Just as a reference for those who don't know.  You've got four different types of differentials:

Open Differential - each wheel can spin at a different speed, power is sent only to one wheel, always the wheel with the least traction - this is the most common type, mainly due to low cost.

Limited Slip Differential - Each wheel can spin at a different speed, power is distributed between wheels either by mechanical gears or clutch packs.  Limited torque can be sent to the wheel with more traction, but not always.

Automatic Locking Differential - When torque is NOT applied, each wheel can spin at a different speed.  When torque is applied (i.e. accelerating) the differential 'locks' up and both wheels now spin at the same speed, even if going around a corner.  Torque is split evenly between both wheels, regardless of traction.  This is an effective but compromised solution, but also usually only costs a few hundred dollars for the part (can be installed in most differentials).

Selectable Locking Differential - Acts as an open differential until you press a button.  At that point either compressed air (air locker) or an electric relay (e-locker) will 'lock' the differential so that both wheels spin at the same speed.  Torque is split evenly between both wheels, regardless of traction.  The JEEP Wrangler Rubicon and Power Wagon have these both front and rear.  This is the most effective but also most expensive way of increasing traction.

Modern vehicles like the JEEP Cherokee will use computers and sensors to shift power around from wheel to wheel using a combination of limited slip and/or locking differentials and the brakes (brake the wheel that is spinning to transfer power to the opposite wheel with traction).  This is typically more effective than open differentials or even limited slip differentials alone, but usually aren't as capable as full-on lockers.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 09:47:01 am by Great_Big_Abyss »

Offline Triple Bob

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The Willy's Wheeler does not come with a locker or a locking rear diff, it comes with a limited slip rear axle. Big difference there.

Well, that sounds more like it.  automatic lockers tend to have weird driving characteristics when doing the daily grind.  They're typically quite noisy and clunky when used on city streets.  You also can't accelerate around a corner with them, because they lock up under load.  They work perfectly fine if you know what you're doing, but would be quite disconcerting for somebody who doesn't know how to drive them.  It would have been a weird choice for a manufacturer like Chrysler to put them in a vehicle that will likely see 99% of its use on pavement and purchased by non-off-roaders..

I have an Aussie auto-locker ( lunch box ) in the front axle of my Wrangler. It is invisible when driving in 2wd. Once 4wd is engaged it gets the job done. Love it.  :)

Well yeah, when you're in 2wd there is no power going to it so it doesn't lock.  A lunchbox works by locking when torque is applied, then decouples when torque application is removed.  Therefore, if you have a locker in the front, when you're driving around in 2wd no torque is being sent to the front diff so the lunchbox locker remains decoupled.  The problem arises when you have a lunchbox installed in the rear differential of a rear-drive vehicle (like a JEEP).  If you try accelerating around a corner, the applied torque will engage the locker and your tires will squeal, scrub, hop and jump.  You CAN drive with a Lunchbox in the rear, but you need to know that you must coast around corners, and only apply power when going straight.  This is why I found it suprising that Chrysler would install a lunchbox locker equivalent in the rear axle of one of their products (turns out they didn't, it was just a limited slip) when you consider that 'normal' people who wouldn't know how to drive a lunchbox locker will be driving it. 

The article was just wrong, and should have specified that the rear axle was a limited slip axle, rather than an 'automatic locker'.

Just as a reference for those who don't know.  You've got four different types of differentials:

Open Differential - each wheel can spin at a different speed, power is sent only to one wheel, always the wheel with the least traction - this is the most common type, mainly due to low cost.

Limited Slip Differential - Each wheel can spin at a different speed, power is distributed between wheels either by mechanical gears or clutch packs.  Limited torque can be sent to the wheel with more traction, but not always.

Automatic Locking Differential - When torque is NOT applied, each wheel can spin at a different speed.  When torque is applied (i.e. accelerating) the differential 'locks' up and both wheels now spin at the same speed, even if going around a corner.  Torque is split evenly between both wheels, regardless of traction.  This is an effective but compromised solution, but also usually only costs a few hundred dollars for the part (can be installed in most differentials).

Selectable Locking Differential - Acts as an open differential until you press a button.  At that point either compressed air (air locker) or an electric relay (e-locker) will 'lock' the differential so that both wheels spin at the same speed.  Torque is split evenly between both wheels, regardless of traction.  The JEEP Wrangler Rubicon and Power Wagon have these both front and rear.  This is the most effective but also most expensive way of increasing traction.

Modern vehicles like the JEEP Cherokee will use computers and sensors to shift power around from wheel to wheel using a combination of limited slip and/or locking differentials and the brakes (brake the wheel that is spinning to transfer power to the opposite wheel with traction).  This is typically more effective than open differentials or even limited slip differentials alone, but usually aren't as capable as full-on lockers.

Good explanation, thanks!


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Offline HeliDriver

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The Willy's Wheeler does not come with a locker or a locking rear diff, it comes with a limited slip rear axle. Big difference there.

Well, that sounds more like it.  automatic lockers tend to have weird driving characteristics when doing the daily grind.  They're typically quite noisy and clunky when used on city streets.  You also can't accelerate around a corner with them, because they lock up under load.  They work perfectly fine if you know what you're doing, but would be quite disconcerting for somebody who doesn't know how to drive them.  It would have been a weird choice for a manufacturer like Chrysler to put them in a vehicle that will likely see 99% of its use on pavement and purchased by non-off-roaders..

I have an Aussie auto-locker ( lunch box ) in the front axle of my Wrangler. It is invisible when driving in 2wd. Once 4wd is engaged it gets the job done. Love it.  :)

Well yeah, when you're in 2wd there is no power going to it so it doesn't lock.  A lunchbox works by locking when torque is applied, then decouples when torque application is removed.  Therefore, if you have a locker in the front, when you're driving around in 2wd no torque is being sent to the front diff so the lunchbox locker remains decoupled.  The problem arises when you have a lunchbox installed in the rear differential of a rear-drive vehicle (like a JEEP).  If you try accelerating around a corner, the applied torque will engage the locker and your tires will squeal, scrub, hop and jump.  You CAN drive with a Lunchbox in the rear, but you need to know that you must coast around corners, and only apply power when going straight.  This is why I found it suprising that Chrysler would install a lunchbox locker equivalent in the rear axle of one of their products (turns out they didn't, it was just a limited slip) when you consider that 'normal' people who wouldn't know how to drive a lunchbox locker will be driving it. 

The article was just wrong, and should have specified that the rear axle was a limited slip axle, rather than an 'automatic locker'.

Just as a reference for those who don't know.  You've got four different types of differentials:

Open Differential - each wheel can spin at a different speed, power is sent only to one wheel, always the wheel with the least traction - this is the most common type, mainly due to low cost.

Limited Slip Differential - Each wheel can spin at a different speed, power is distributed between wheels either by mechanical gears or clutch packs.  Limited torque can be sent to the wheel with more traction, but not always.

Automatic Locking Differential - When torque is NOT applied, each wheel can spin at a different speed.  When torque is applied (i.e. accelerating) the differential 'locks' up and both wheels now spin at the same speed, even if going around a corner.  Torque is split evenly between both wheels, regardless of traction.  This is an effective but compromised solution, but also usually only costs a few hundred dollars for the part (can be installed in most differentials).

Selectable Locking Differential - Acts as an open differential until you press a button.  At that point either compressed air (air locker) or an electric relay (e-locker) will 'lock' the differential so that both wheels spin at the same speed.  Torque is split evenly between both wheels, regardless of traction.  The JEEP Wrangler Rubicon and Power Wagon have these both front and rear.  This is the most effective but also most expensive way of increasing traction.

Modern vehicles like the JEEP Cherokee will use computers and sensors to shift power around from wheel to wheel using a combination of limited slip and/or locking differentials and the brakes (brake the wheel that is spinning to transfer power to the opposite wheel with traction).  This is typically more effective than open differentials or even limited slip differentials alone, but usually aren't as capable as full-on lockers.

Not all automatic lockers are the same. GM has put the Eaton G80 locking diff in its pickups and big SUVs for years now, and it drives much like any other diff on bare pavement - no special driving technique required.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-simple-guide-to-the-g80-locking-differential-94874.html

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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The Willy's Wheeler does not come with a locker or a locking rear diff, it comes with a limited slip rear axle. Big difference there.

Well, that sounds more like it.  automatic lockers tend to have weird driving characteristics when doing the daily grind.  They're typically quite noisy and clunky when used on city streets.  You also can't accelerate around a corner with them, because they lock up under load.  They work perfectly fine if you know what you're doing, but would be quite disconcerting for somebody who doesn't know how to drive them.  It would have been a weird choice for a manufacturer like Chrysler to put them in a vehicle that will likely see 99% of its use on pavement and purchased by non-off-roaders..

I have an Aussie auto-locker ( lunch box ) in the front axle of my Wrangler. It is invisible when driving in 2wd. Once 4wd is engaged it gets the job done. Love it.  :)

Well yeah, when you're in 2wd there is no power going to it so it doesn't lock.  A lunchbox works by locking when torque is applied, then decouples when torque application is removed.  Therefore, if you have a locker in the front, when you're driving around in 2wd no torque is being sent to the front diff so the lunchbox locker remains decoupled.  The problem arises when you have a lunchbox installed in the rear differential of a rear-drive vehicle (like a JEEP).  If you try accelerating around a corner, the applied torque will engage the locker and your tires will squeal, scrub, hop and jump.  You CAN drive with a Lunchbox in the rear, but you need to know that you must coast around corners, and only apply power when going straight.  This is why I found it suprising that Chrysler would install a lunchbox locker equivalent in the rear axle of one of their products (turns out they didn't, it was just a limited slip) when you consider that 'normal' people who wouldn't know how to drive a lunchbox locker will be driving it. 

The article was just wrong, and should have specified that the rear axle was a limited slip axle, rather than an 'automatic locker'.

Just as a reference for those who don't know.  You've got four different types of differentials:

Open Differential - each wheel can spin at a different speed, power is sent only to one wheel, always the wheel with the least traction - this is the most common type, mainly due to low cost.

Limited Slip Differential - Each wheel can spin at a different speed, power is distributed between wheels either by mechanical gears or clutch packs.  Limited torque can be sent to the wheel with more traction, but not always.

Automatic Locking Differential - When torque is NOT applied, each wheel can spin at a different speed.  When torque is applied (i.e. accelerating) the differential 'locks' up and both wheels now spin at the same speed, even if going around a corner.  Torque is split evenly between both wheels, regardless of traction.  This is an effective but compromised solution, but also usually only costs a few hundred dollars for the part (can be installed in most differentials).

Selectable Locking Differential - Acts as an open differential until you press a button.  At that point either compressed air (air locker) or an electric relay (e-locker) will 'lock' the differential so that both wheels spin at the same speed.  Torque is split evenly between both wheels, regardless of traction.  The JEEP Wrangler Rubicon and Power Wagon have these both front and rear.  This is the most effective but also most expensive way of increasing traction.

Modern vehicles like the JEEP Cherokee will use computers and sensors to shift power around from wheel to wheel using a combination of limited slip and/or locking differentials and the brakes (brake the wheel that is spinning to transfer power to the opposite wheel with traction).  This is typically more effective than open differentials or even limited slip differentials alone, but usually aren't as capable as full-on lockers.

Not all automatic lockers are the same. GM has put the Eaton G80 locking diff in its pickups and big SUVs for years now, and it drives much like any other diff on bare pavement - no special driving technique required.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-simple-guide-to-the-g80-locking-differential-94874.html

True.  Although AFAIK those have only ever been available in GM trucks.  Plus I was trying to simplify things.