Topic: Kia planning sport sedan aimed at BMW buyers

[PJ]

[quote author=dirtyjeffer link=topic=95524.msg1175940#msg1175940 date=1454972977

10-20 years ago, Hyundai products were often regarded as being a 2nd tier product too...they improved drastically and are now the 3rd largest auto company in the world behind only VW and Toyota (passenger vehicles/2013 data)...never underestimate your opponent.

what??? where did you drink that kool aid?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eggh45eiki/1-toyota-motor/
[/quote]


Largest based on what?  Not much detail there and I find it very difficult to believe Daimler is the 3rd biggest producer of cars.  Even harder to believe BMW is forth.

[rrocket]

The question isn't the badge or how it looks, it's how it drives.  If it drives better then a BMW then it will be a great car. 

I'd love it if it could do it with a KIA badge.  Shake up the badge snobs.

Have Kia win LeMans a time or two and get back to me. 
There is occasionally more to badges than a piece of plastic.

For the average driver?  Negative.  They don't even know what LeMans is.  And a LeMans car is so far removed from a street car that, frankly, it's comparing apples and pumpkins.

And not that it matters, but KIA was the Pirellia World Challenge class champion.....a couple of times.  In a class where there were Porsche, BMWs, and other sports cars.

[dirtyjeffer]

10-20 years ago, Hyundai products were often regarded as being a 2nd tier product too...they improved drastically and are now the 3rd largest auto company in the world behind only VW and Toyota (passenger vehicles/2013 data)...never underestimate your opponent.

what??? where did you drink that kool aid?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eggh45eiki/1-toyota-motor/

i can't access the forbes site, so i can't comment on your link...but my link is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry#By_manufacturer

as i stated in my post, 2013 sales data, and click the "Cars" tab twice to sort passenger vehicles highest to lowest...Hyundai is 3rd (again, 2013 data) right behind Toyota (2nd) and VW (1st) and right above your beloved Ford (4th, sorry).

[EV-Light]

10-20 years ago, Hyundai products were often regarded as being a 2nd tier product too...they improved drastically and are now the 3rd largest auto company in the world behind only VW and Toyota (passenger vehicles/2013 data)...never underestimate your opponent.

what??? where did you drink that kool aid?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eggh45eiki/1-toyota-motor/

i can't access the forbes site, so i can't comment on your link...but my link is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry#By_manufacturer

as i stated in my post, 2013 sales data, and click the "Cars" tab twice to sort passenger vehicles highest to lowest...Hyundai is 3rd (again, 2013 data) right behind Toyota (2nd) and VW (1st) and right above your beloved Ford (4th, sorry).

2013!....2015 data:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamurphy/2015/05/06/2015-global-2000-the-worlds-biggest-auto-companies/#2715e4857a0b297b4746e486

[rrocket]

^^Your Forbes links are garbage.  Not working for me.

[PJ]

I can get it to work but it doesn't say what they are ranking by so it's not very useful. Biggest in sales?,company net worth, profit per car, visitor parking spots, coffee machines in break rooms, could be anything.

[bluelines]

Seriously, drive a 328i with standard suspension and ugly "luxury" trim, soft-ish but still somehow not comfortable ride, slightly vague steering, and you really don't think you've made it, unless you don't care at all about driving. It would be nice to see Kia do well in this space. Personally I think there brand has a lot more honest, unpretentious appeal than Acura or Infiniti.

[dirtyjeffer]

^^Your Forbes links are garbage.  Not working for me.

yea, i did find this though.

https://www.tharawat-magazine.com/trending/2224-top-10-largest-car-companies-in-the-world.html?showall=1

it is 2015 data, but what i'm not sure about is what is included...in my wiki link, the reason i specified "cars", is because the "total" numbers also include light commercial vehicles, heavy trucks and coaches/buses...Toyota and the Big3 sell a TON of those vehicles...when you specify "cars", that is standard passenger vehicles (up to 8 seats)...the regular kind of stuff we buy and talk about in here.

[EV-Light]

^^Your Forbes links are garbage.  Not working for me.

mmmm it works for me, time for a new computer?




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[ArticSteve]

 

[blur911]

The question isn't the badge or how it looks, it's how it drives.  If it drives better then a BMW then it will be a great car. 

I'd love it if it could do it with a KIA badge.  Shake up the badge snobs.

Have Kia win LeMans a time or two and get back to me. 
There is occasionally more to badges than a piece of plastic.

For the average driver?  Negative.  They don't even know what LeMans is.  And a LeMans car is so far removed from a street car that, frankly, it's comparing apples and pumpkins.

And not that it matters, but KIA was the Pirellia World Challenge class champion.....a couple of times.  In a class where there were Porsche, BMWs, and other sports cars.

LeMans was just an example of a race or series that people have heard of.   I had to look it up that Kia was a champion at something,   But yeah, the average driver wouldn't care, the buyer of a sports sedan cross shopping with BMW might, but mostly I wasn't speaking as either one, I was just stating my own opinion.

[rrocket]

The question isn't the badge or how it looks, it's how it drives.  If it drives better then a BMW then it will be a great car. 

I'd love it if it could do it with a KIA badge.  Shake up the badge snobs.

Have Kia win LeMans a time or two and get back to me. 
There is occasionally more to badges than a piece of plastic.

For the average driver?  Negative.  They don't even know what LeMans is.  And a LeMans car is so far removed from a street car that, frankly, it's comparing apples and pumpkins.

And not that it matters, but KIA was the Pirellia World Challenge class champion.....a couple of times.  In a class where there were Porsche, BMWs, and other sports cars.

LeMans was just an example of a race or series that people have heard of.   I had to look it up that Kia was a champion at something,   But yeah, the average driver wouldn't care, the buyer of a sports sedan cross shopping with BMW might, but mostly I wasn't speaking as either one, I was just stating my own opinion.

Understood.

[EV-Light]

I can get it to work but it doesn't say what they are ranking by so it's not very useful. Biggest in sales?,company net worth, profit per car, visitor parking spots, coffee machines in break rooms, could be anything.

Number of cars sold...it's in the little intro.

[rrocket]

I can get it to work but it doesn't say what they are ranking by so it's not very useful. Biggest in sales?,company net worth, profit per car, visitor parking spots, coffee machines in break rooms, could be anything.

Number of cars sold...it's in the little intro.

That means zero.  GM was the #1 seller of cars even as they were going into bankruptcy.  So yea...

[dirtyjeffer]

I can get it to work but it doesn't say what they are ranking by so it's not very useful. Biggest in sales?,company net worth, profit per car, visitor parking spots, coffee machines in break rooms, could be anything.

Number of cars sold...it's in the little intro.

that that number include all vehicles or just passenger vehicles...my link, albeit from a couple of years ago, is only for passenger vehicles...it does not include commercial, heavy duty or coach/bus vehicles...of which, the Big3 and Toyota each have sales of 2-3 million units that will be included in their total.

[EV-Light]

I can get it to work but it doesn't say what they are ranking by so it's not very useful. Biggest in sales?,company net worth, profit per car, visitor parking spots, coffee machines in break rooms, could be anything.

Number of cars sold...it's in the little intro.

That means zero.  GM was the #1 seller of cars even as they were going into bankruptcy.  So yea...

We are not talking about that....the question we are trying to answer is: was Hyundai #3 in sales?


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[dirtyjeffer]

We are not talking about that....the question we are trying to answer is: was Hyundai #3 in sales?

they were in 2013 passenger vehicles, as i've already posted...VW was first and Toyota was 2nd.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

We are not talking about that....the question we are trying to answer is: was Hyundai #3 in sales?

they were in 2013 passenger vehicles, as i've already posted...VW was first and Toyota was 2nd.

How do you separate out an F350 King Ranch used as personal transportation from a regular cab F350 flat deck used to haul a Bobcat?

[evil_twin]

Who cares what number of cars Kia and Ford sold??   They both sold a lot....

...and that has very little bearing on their ability to actually bring a true BMW-competitor to market and selling a lot of them.

There's more to selling luxury cars than marketing badges to "pretentious pricks".   Hyundai is taking the right road by creating a separate Genesis line...but they also need the separate dealer/service locations.   

And it also takes a heck of a lot of time to build up a reputation.  Again, not just for badge whores.   The same was true with Hyundai/Kia building up reputation for building quality mainstream cars.

[dirtyjeffer]

We are not talking about that....the question we are trying to answer is: was Hyundai #3 in sales?

they were in 2013 passenger vehicles, as i've already posted...VW was first and Toyota was 2nd.

How do you separate out an F350 King Ranch used as personal transportation from a regular cab F350 flat deck used to haul a Bobcat?

i suppose you don't...i can only assume the F350 would be considered a light commercial vehicle.

that number is fine to include in your totals as those companies that offer them sell them...but since some brands don't sell such product (or very few of them), that is why they are separated out from the "norm".