Topic: J.D. Power Releases 2013 Initial Quality Study

[Autos_Editor]

General Motors Receives Eight Model-Level Awards, including Five for Chevrolet; Porsche Ranks Highest Among Nameplates

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[tooscoops]

feel bad for jeeps ranking....

mainly due to me seeing 6 wranglers in over the last two days with owners who just don't get the soft top function and need to come in for help.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Nearly two-thirds of the problems experienced in the first 90 days of ownership are related to the vehicle’s design, as opposed to components that malfunction. For example, the component may be working as designed, but owners deem it a problem because it may be difficult to understand or operate.

This is the thing I have a problem with. I'm interested in defects, not ergonomic issues. Those I can identify for myself. Consumer Reports has been doing the same thing by lumping design and defects together.

[blotter]

This is the thing I have a problem with. I'm interested in defects, not ergonomic issues. Those I can identify for myself. Consumer Reports has been doing the same thing by lumping design and defects together.

agreed!
this, IMO is completely meaningless.   If car companies take anything aways from this it's simply to have better sales folks at the dealership educate the consumer.  But even that most likely won't help.

Point in case:
i drove a friend to pick up his new car.  The sales guy asked if he wanted help / be shown how to setup the bluetooth, radio, nav stuff.  He said no, i'm sure i can figure it out.   
Next day my friend was totally bitching about the car because he had so a hard time figuring out the bluetooth.   

that's what goes into these complaints!!!

[Frontier1]

Every year we have this meaningless discussion about a meaningless subject.  See you all next year

[sailor723]

This is the thing I have a problem with. I'm interested in defects, not ergonomic issues. Those I can identify for myself. Consumer Reports has been doing the same thing by lumping design and defects together.

agreed!
this, IMO is completely meaningless.   If car companies take anything aways from this it's simply to have better sales folks at the dealership educate the consumer.  But even that most likely won't help.

Point in case:
i drove a friend to pick up his new car.  The sales guy asked if he wanted help / be shown how to setup the bluetooth, radio, nav stuff.  He said no, i'm sure i can figure it out.   
Next day my friend was totally bitching about the car because he had so a hard time figuring out the bluetooth.   

that's what goes into these complaints!!!

I'd look at it the other way around. The car companies should be building systems into their cars that can be easily understood and operated by their customers. If a significant percentage of the intended users find a system confusing or differcult to operate it's a problem with the design.

[Snowman]

This is the thing I have a problem with. I'm interested in defects, not ergonomic issues. Those I can identify for myself. Consumer Reports has been doing the same thing by lumping design and defects together.

agreed!
this, IMO is completely meaningless.   If car companies take anything aways from this it's simply to have better sales folks at the dealership educate the consumer.  But even that most likely won't help.

Point in case:
i drove a friend to pick up his new car.  The sales guy asked if he wanted help / be shown how to setup the bluetooth, radio, nav stuff.  He said no, i'm sure i can figure it out.   
Next day my friend was totally bitching about the car because he had so a hard time figuring out the bluetooth.   

that's what goes into these complaints!!!

I'd look at it the other way around. The car companies should be building systems into their cars that can be easily understood and operated by their customers. If a significant percentage of the intended users find a system confusing or differcult to operate it's a problem with the design.

Agreed  Poor cognitive ergonomics is a distraction and a safety issue.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

If a person is too dim to figure it out prior to buying, that's their problem. I don't want my interface to be determined by the skills of some illiterate octogenarian.

It is not a reliability issue.

Sent from my Galaxy S 3 using Tapatalk 2

[MarkStevenson]

If a person is too dim to figure it out prior to buying, that's their problem. I don't want my interface to be determined by the skills of some illiterate octogenarian.

It is not a reliability issue.

Sent from my Galaxy S 3 using Tapatalk 2

So very true. Also, Bluetooth is a great example as the protocol itself makes it confusing for a lot of people to use. This is not something automakers can do on their own. Instead, the mobile industry, automakers, and accessory manufacturers need to work together in order to solve the interoperability problems that exist.

Case in point: wireless encryption for routers. If you are connecting to a friend's router who is only semi-competent when it comes to technology, trying to connect to their wireless can be a pain if they have to provide you with the wireless key. Thankfully, router manufacturers have caught on to this and now there is a nice little quick connect button on almost all new residential routers. Push the button and connect your computer to the router. Problem solved.

You should just be able to hold a button in the car and a button on your phone simultaneously to make them connect. It's a simple solution for a complex problem.

[Vanstar]

The measure doesn't really mean a lot but it is the Holy Grain in the car business. That and CSI scores are what run marketing in all car stores in North America. The numbers compared to even a decade ago are impressive. The 59 for the Lexus LS is amazing.

[Frontier1]

Enrolling the cell on our Nissan's is super easy but I always let them do it as part of the walk around when we took delivery.  The walk around is part of the deal, they genuinely like to do it and it actually looks good in the yard when others pull in;)  But people have different  levels of skills and no doubt some cars are challenging, myself who routinely plays in windows registry or linux and networking well...

[sailor723]

If a person is too dim to figure it out prior to buying, that's their problem. I don't want my interface to be determined by the skills of some illiterate octogenarian.

It is not a reliability issue.

Sent from my Galaxy S 3 using Tapatalk 2

I don't see it that way. Sometimes it's not a question of the driver being dim but rather systems that are cumbersome or that require multiple steps to achieve the desired results.

For example, I can make a call using my phone's contact list from either the Mercedes or the BMW but the BMW is far quicker and requires fewer steps. If I was being surveyed I'd give Benz bad marks for their system.

I agree that it's not really a reliability problem but maybe these "initial quality" surveys need another section to reflect peoples lack of satisfaction with these type of systems

[tpl]

Interesting.  My Mercedes is the first Bluetooth car I have owned and, having played with Bluetooth a few years back with cell phones and headsets I find the M-B system is quite intuitive and it has no problem with two phones and two different contact lists. Obviously I don't know if BMW works better tho'

[sailor723]

In reading the results a couple of things jumped out at me.

 I'm not surprised to see Nissan ranking so low. I think they've been going steadily downhill in recent years both in terms of product design and quality. 

Subaru's poor performance was something of a surprise. I wonder if it has to do with their large growth in sales volume?  (moving more into the mainstream gets them into the hands of buyers who are less Subaru loyalists and perhaps less likely to put up with Subaru "quirkiness")

[sailor723]

Interesting.  My Mercedes is the first Bluetooth car I have owned and, having played with Bluetooth a few years back with cell phones and headsets I find the M-B system is quite intuitive and it has no problem with two phones and two different contact lists. Obviously I don't know if BMW works better tho'

I believe MB came out with a new system in 2012. My ML is a 2011 and has the last generation of "Command" (pretty poor design and functionality) Our 2011 328 has the updated version of the much maligned "Idrive" that supposedly addressed many of the numerous customer complaints.

Software and technology changes so quickly I really think car companies have to get rid of the old habit of only changing/revamping their controls/systems when a new model comes out or undergoes a midlife refresh.

[Ex-airbalancer]

I wonder what GM numbers are just for their trucks ?

[Snowman]

If a person is too dim to figure it out prior to buying, that's their problem. I don't want my interface to be determined by the skills of some illiterate octogenarian.

It is not a reliability issue.

Sent from my Galaxy S 3 using Tapatalk 2

Unfortunately 80% of the general population is dim.

[Solstice2006]

The measure doesn't really mean a lot but it is the Holy Grain in the car business. That and CSI scores are what run marketing in all car stores in North America. The numbers compared to even a decade ago are impressive. The 59 for the Lexus LS is amazing.

Every thread is this high praise of Toyota,  are you that narrow minded that everything else is inferior?  Tell me again why you drive an Acura TL?  Lexus too expensive? Or not exciting enough? 

The Lexus score is great, but look at the sales numbers they sell less then 9000 in North America.  If you look at the GM units, and see how many they sell, those numbers are quite good as well. 

[Frontier1]

In reading the results a couple of things jumped out at me.

 I'm not surprised to see Nissan ranking so low. I think they've been going steadily downhill in recent years both in terms of product design and quality. 

Subaru's poor performance was something of a surprise. I wonder if it has to do with their large growth in sales volume?  (moving more into the mainstream gets them into the hands of buyers who are less Subaru loyalists and perhaps less likely to put up with Subaru "quirkiness")

Nah...Nissan always tends to put technology in their cars and as Snowman pointed out 80% of the general pop is dim;)  Just look at the top of the line Versa Note, if you're 19 it's all cool but at 60 not so much.

As for reliability, CR reports differently.  Of course it's a matter of convenience if JDP makes you feel better

[Frontier1]

The measure doesn't really mean a lot but it is the Holy Grain in the car business. That and CSI scores are what run marketing in all car stores in North America. The numbers compared to even a decade ago are impressive. The 59 for the Lexus LS is amazing.

Every thread is this high praise of Toyota,  are you that narrow minded that everything else is inferior?  Tell me again why you drive an Acura TL?  Lexus too expensive? Or not exciting enough? 

The Lexus score is great, but look at the sales numbers they sell less then 9000 in North America.  If you look at the GM units, and see how many they sell, those numbers are quite good as well.

So 59 is amazing but the measure means nothing!