Topic: Car and Driver's Long Term Tesla Test

[johngenx]

I applaud people that take the chance on these cars and help us along the way to more EVs.  That said, it's one thing to buy an EV and acknowledge the limitations and understand how early technology lacks mass market appeal and another to blindly repeat that the EV can do anything an ICE car can do only better.

This is why I like reading CR and C&D and others takes on these cars - they're objective.  One thing to note is how far EVs have come in a short time period.  I really hope that lithium is phased out as a battery material - that's being worked on by several companies - fingers crossed.

[Blueprint]

I applaud people that take the chance on these cars and help us along the way to more EVs.  That said, it's one thing to buy an EV and acknowledge the limitations and understand how early technology lacks mass market appeal and another to blindly repeat that the EV can do anything an ICE car can do only better.

This is why I like reading CR and C&D and others takes on these cars - they're objective.  One thing to note is how far EVs have come in a short time period.

I recently spent a week each with an i3 and a Focus EV. Both were a hoot to drive and of course ran on pennies. The Focus was pretty impressive for its price point, and with the high gvt incentives in Ontario, it makes financial sense as a second car. And it's a real car, unlike a smart fortwo or an iMiEV. I'm limiting my posting here so I don't ruin the punch of my upcoming EV feature 

[EV Dan]

I applaud people that take the chance on these cars and help us along the way to more EVs.  That said, it's one thing to buy an EV and acknowledge the limitations and understand how early technology lacks mass market appeal and another to blindly repeat that the EV can do anything an ICE car can do only better.

This is why I like reading CR and C&D and others takes on these cars - they're objective.  One thing to note is how far EVs have come in a short time period.

I recently spent a week each with an i3 and a Focus EV. Both were a hoot to drive and of course ran on pennies. The Focus was pretty impressive for its price point, and with the high gvt incentives in Ontario, it makes financial sense as a second car. And it's a real car, unlike a smart fortwo or an iMiEV. I'm limiting my posting here so I don't ruin the punch of my upcoming EV feature 

   

[Blueprint]

I applaud people that take the chance on these cars and help us along the way to more EVs.  That said, it's one thing to buy an EV and acknowledge the limitations and understand how early technology lacks mass market appeal and another to blindly repeat that the EV can do anything an ICE car can do only better.

This is why I like reading CR and C&D and others takes on these cars - they're objective.  One thing to note is how far EVs have come in a short time period.

I recently spent a week each with an i3 and a Focus EV. Both were a hoot to drive and of course ran on pennies. The Focus was pretty impressive for its price point, and with the high gvt incentives in Ontario, it makes financial sense as a second car. And it's a real car, unlike a smart fortwo or an iMiEV. I'm limiting my posting here so I don't ruin the punch of my upcoming EV feature 

   

You can start with the prequel: http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/newsfeatures/20160503/when-is-an-ev-worth-it-alternative-fuels-and-the-pocketbook/#R0fTIBj27ZJqb3R5.97 

[bye]

Range was definitely an issue for Car and Driver in the winter, and I'll rely upon the objectivity of their reporting a good deal more than I'll rely upon your endless sunshine and rainbows cheerleading.

I've driven 35000 km in EV's, a lot more than most.   My feedback is based on real life experience.   My wife was sceptical of the Tesla, but having driven the Smart ED, she was comfortable driving an EV full time.   She raves about the car too, and she's no fanboi like me, she just likes everything about it.   We've both independently done long road trips in the winter, and we put on 15000 km just this past winter, averaging 400 km per weekend and routinely driving 250 km in a single one way trip without recharging along the way.  The car is for real.

Oh, and my Smart ED is also perfect after 2.5 years, not a single dollar spent on maintenance, never seen the dealer since I drove off the lot new, and gets 60 km in the worse days, and >100 km most other days.

It's easy to live with a shorter range EV as your second car, and if you have a Tesla, easy to replace any car.

[Phillip123]

I applaud people that take the chance on these cars and help us along the way to more EVs.  That said, it's one thing to buy an EV and acknowledge the limitations and understand how early technology lacks mass market appeal and another to blindly repeat that the EV can do anything an ICE car can do only better.

This is why I like reading CR and C&D and others takes on these cars - they're objective.  One thing to note is how far EVs have come in a short time period.

Cool article. Objective points.

I recently spent a week each with an i3 and a Focus EV. Both were a hoot to drive and of course ran on pennies. The Focus was pretty impressive for its price point, and with the high gvt incentives in Ontario, it makes financial sense as a second car. And it's a real car, unlike a smart fortwo or an iMiEV. I'm limiting my posting here so I don't ruin the punch of my upcoming EV feature 

   

You can start with the prequel: http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/newsfeatures/20160503/when-is-an-ev-worth-it-alternative-fuels-and-the-pocketbook/#R0fTIBj27ZJqb3R5.97 

[X-Traction]

Teslas are pretty popular amongst the monied Whistler set. The distance is easily within their range, there is costly housing or accommodation at both ends, you can't fly wheeled fixed wing into Whistler, and Vancouver has places to make money while Whistler is a place to play.

Vancouver to Kamloops or Kelowna is now an option with a charging stop in Hope.  And who wouldn't want to hang out in Hope?  While it takes longer to charge than to gas up, EV's need far less time for service trips than ICE cars.  Not to mention the time needed to work to make the money to pay for those service trips.

[johngenx]

Not to mention the time needed to work to make the money to pay for those service trips.

From an economic standpoint, an EV makes no sense to someone actually trying to minimize costs.  The upfront prices are too high.

[Ex-airbalancer]

I think most people would drive an EV if the price was $20,000
And had a range of 600km
Once EV are main stream , can you just  imagine the line ups at Costco charge when they offer power for a couple cents less   

[tpl]

I think most people would drive an EV if the price was $20,000
And had a range of 600km
Once EV are main stream , can you just  imagine the line ups at Costco charge when they offer power for a couple cents less   

And that 600 km was available in under 5 minutes at every gas station...for the millions of city dwellers who have no way of charging at home.

[Jaeger]

I think most people would drive an EV if the price was $20,000
And had a range of 600km
Once EV are main stream , can you just  imagine the line ups at Costco charge when they offer power for a couple cents less   

And that 600 km was available in under 5 minutes at every gas station...for the millions of city dwellers who have no way of charging at home.

No kidding.  Sitting in my office downtown surrounded by roughly a gazillion condos - where are these peeps supposed to plug in their Teslas?  Also, the idea that lengthy charging stops are a non-issue on road trips baffles me.  I'm definitely NOT looking for opportunities to significantly extend my travel time.  10 minutes total for washroom and gas is all the time I want to spend.  Last time I did the ~ 700km from Oakville to Stowe I did it non-stop and made great time.  Less time getting there equals more time being there.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Utopia would be having the cars recharge as they drive on the road.

A few cities around the world are experimenting with capacitive bus charging.  The idea is that the bus is equipped with large capacitors that can quickly be charged and run for a few kms.  At every major busstop there is a capacitive charger that quickly recharges the bus in the time it takes to offload and load passengers. 

I'm imagining our roads lined with capacitive chargers that keep your car topped up as you drive over them.

[Fobroader]

I think most people would drive an EV if the price was $20,000
And had a range of 600km
Once EV are main stream , can you just  imagine the line ups at Costco charge when they offer power for a couple cents less   

And that 600 km was available in under 5 minutes at every gas station...for the millions of city dwellers who have no way of charging at home.

No kidding.  Sitting in my office downtown surrounded by roughly a gazillion condos - where are these peeps supposed to plug in their Teslas?  Also, the idea that lengthy charging stops are a non-issue on road trips baffles me.  I'm definitely NOT looking for opportunities to significantly extend my travel time.  10 minutes total for washroom and gas is all the time I want to spend.  Last time I did the ~ 700km from Oakville to Stowe I did it non-stop and made great time.  Less time getting there equals more time being there.

Do those poor, sad condo types not have an underground parkade with a plug in at least??

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[tpl]

I think most people would drive an EV if the price was $20,000
And had a range of 600km
Once EV are main stream , can you just  imagine the line ups at Costco charge when they offer power for a couple cents less   

And that 600 km was available in under 5 minutes at every gas station...for the millions of city dwellers who have no way of charging at home.

No kidding.  Sitting in my office downtown surrounded by roughly a gazillion condos - where are these peeps supposed to plug in their Teslas?  Also, the idea that lengthy charging stops are a non-issue on road trips baffles me.  I'm definitely NOT looking for opportunities to significantly extend my travel time.  10 minutes total for washroom and gas is all the time I want to spend.  Last time I did the ~ 700km from Oakville to Stowe I did it non-stop and made great time.  Less time getting there equals more time being there.

Do those poor, sad condo types not have an underground parkade with a plug in at least??

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Maybe some do.  It won't be a 240V socket and I bet that if on e accidentally popped the breaker that one would have to call the building manager to get it reset...really useful; if one needed ones car charged for the morning commute.

[tpl]

Utopia would be having the cars recharge as they drive on the road.

A few cities around the world are experimenting with capacitive bus charging.  The idea is that the bus is equipped with large capacitors that can quickly be charged and run for a few kms.  At every major busstop there is a capacitive charger that quickly recharges the bus in the time it takes to offload and load passengers. 

I'm imagining our roads lined with capacitive chargers that keep your car topped up as you drive over them.

I guarantee that if you tried that that some or all of the following would happen as the field strength would be very large ( that pesky inverse square law)
1) the people who complain that Wifi with its few milliwatts of field strength at the most makes the ill, would get it stopped.  Doesn't matter that the frequencies etc would be quite different...they would complain anyway.
2) At least some electronic devices would fail as you drove over the charger.
3) after trials , where it would of course work, it would be far too expensive.
4) In our winters at least once salt water would seep into the high power works under the road and that could be quite spectacular.

Some of the above would apply to busstops as well!

[X-Traction]

Not to mention the time needed to work to make the money to pay for those service trips.

From an economic standpoint, an EV makes no sense to someone actually trying to minimize costs.  The upfront prices are too high.

Yes, but....

Rating actions relative to the economy lacks a lot of sense. For instance, Alberta's GDP will be increased by reconstruction in Fort McMurray.  The "economy" fails to distinguish betweeen net waste and real wealth, and oddly places no value on things essential to life.  As far as minimizing costs goes, we will be spending so much wealth dealing with climate change that current resistance (note electrical puns) to ev's will seem awfully shortsighted.

And once again, how come no one mentions the "economic standpoint" when it comes to performance cars and options?  Why do armchair racer boys get to say who has to answer for economic considerations? There are very good reasons to buy an ev without economic considerations and all the flaws inherent in that.  Some would find very good reasons to buy ev's even if gas was free.

[johngenx]

From a macro standpoint, that's true, but from a microeconomic viewpoint, individual choices designed to minimize costs today take EVs out of the running for a significant percentage of people.  Someone with a $20K tops budget has no EV option.  You can talk about future costs until you're blue in the face, but if you can afford $20K max, that's the deal.

Also understand that from the same viewpoint, the lack of charging infrastructure and range issues means that the person buying that $20K as their only means of transport is also out of the running for an EV.

I hope it changes - it is - but TODAY, an EV is a luxury car.

[bye]

Someone with a $20K tops budget has no EV option

Saw a used Chevy Volt for sale in northern GTA dealer, $17K, loaded car, very luxurious inside, quick off the line acceleration and 50+ km all  electric range. 

Given the 180000 km 8 year powertrain warranty, that's a buy IMHO.   Costs very little to drive with cheap fuel with overnight electricity, it's like driving 20c/L gas price!

So yeah, if your budget is <$20K, there's an EV for you.

Also, I paid less than $20K taxes included for my EV, and it goes 80 km all electric in any weather and accelerates off the line faster than any economy car, and most mid sized cars!

[bye]

millions of city dwellers who have no way of charging at home.

The parking garages of the condominiums I've lived in and visited ALL had electricity in them to power the lighting.  The energy wasted on non-LED lighting in those garages would power all of the EV's parked in them.   Replace lighting with LED, and run the 120V next to the car and charge overnight like I do.   A 50 km daily commute is easily recharged on 8A at 120V in 10 hours overnight.

There is a condo in Toronto adding DC fast charging in 2017 as part of their attracting those interested in owning an EV in the city.   Recharge 80 km of range in 10 mins. 

[Gurgie]

Who pays for that electricity? Condo fees increase? Or every parking spot gets a meter? There's logistics behind your simple ass solution!

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