Topic: Autos.ca Comparison Tests Steering Committee

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Seems obvious.  The engineering minds want to see those numbers and care nothing about text.  While the rest of the world reads the text

 

I typically look for tables and charts, but I always read the entire article. I really liked the one line summaries that a few of the authors added to the comparison. The comments help flesh out any numerical rating.

I think value plays a part in any comparison, but only when you have similarly equipped cars. If the Mazda3 GT and Focus Titanium have essentially the same equipment, but one is a couple of grand cheaper, that should be reflected in the score. But if you are comparing a Mazda3 GT and a Focus S, really the Focus shouldn't be given a big advantage just because it's cheap.

I think you guys do a really good job regardless of whether I agree or not. I should mention that more.

[Black Hatch]

Mazda3
James's Review http://www.autos.ca/car-test-drives/day-by-day-review-2014-mazda3-sport-gt/4/
Simon's Review http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2014-mazda3/4/

	Average	James	Simon	Max Score
Overall	4.25	4	4.5	5
Comfort	4.25	4	4.5	5
Performance	4	4	4	5
Fuel Economy	4.5	4.5	4.5	5
Interior	4.25	4.5	4	5
Exterior Styling	4.25	4	4.5	5

or something like that.

[dirtyjeffer]

i posted this in the other thread, but it seems to be more appropriate here:

perhaps an excel sheet (or whatever) with the categories for the cars listed...then, the weighting is described as given in the article...for example, if there are 10 categories, perhaps the default setting is each category is worth 10 points, but the weighting is variable, so you could put specific categories higher, like value, driving dynamics, whatever...you could make them worth more and others worth less...so perhaps a car that scores lower in "style" won't get hurt as much...if such a chart/spreadsheet were available to the readers, it would allow them to formulate their own versions (i suppose they could simply make their own if they knew how)...and each reader/customer could either leave everything even or boost categories most important to them (fuel economy, space, etc).

[tooscoops]

Edit. OK, tracked done all the individual car photos taken during the comparison…pretty effective and thorough actually. But, I had to hunt them down in the photos section of the website, only the group shots were in the article. So, maybe there is something to be done in making access to the images a little easier and obvious.

Huh?

You mean you don't see the exterior walkaround shots and various interior shots laid out in the article,
 which can be clicked on to see the enlarged photo?

pictures are great here... but i would like it if the thumbnails page was a one click at the top of the article.. and if that collection page was a little prettier... and held all of the pics. seems like there is always one or two on the second page.

just a little thing

[jyarkony]

Edit. OK, tracked done all the individual car photos taken during the comparison…pretty effective and thorough actually. But, I had to hunt them down in the photos section of the website, only the group shots were in the article. So, maybe there is something to be done in making access to the images a little easier and obvious.

Huh?

You mean you don't see the exterior walkaround shots and various interior shots laid out in the article,
 which can be clicked on to see the enlarged photo?

pictures are great here... but i would like it if the thumbnails page was a one click at the top of the article.. and if that collection page was a little prettier... and held all of the pics. seems like there is always one or two on the second page.

just a little thing

A big gallery fix is in the works. Should cover these requests.

[Solstice2006]

I'm on the fence.  While the scoring data would be interesting, but I do think a well written article is far more important.  I can usually read into why someone didn't like this or that and it'll give me an idea if this lands more towards a personal choice (style points, seating) and make up my own mind if I feel that would apply in my situation. 

Some data is good to help have a simple comparison breakdown between all the vehicles.
So maybe a standard can be developed that lands somewhere in-between.

I agree with Blotter (wouldn't be the first time).  I don't think scoring is needed, the articles written by the staff, along with the pictures makes this very unique.  And it's good to see they are looking for suggestions to improve. 

A table at the end of the comparison would be helpful, so when going to the dealer to test drive cars, the person has something quick to refer to, to look out for.  For example, the Dodge Dart has poor rear seat room (32 inches for example), while the Sentra (34 inches for example.  So a table of facts/data is what I am looking for, dimensions, specs, pricing, observed fuel economy, a two line summary what the writer like/disliked (pros/cons) of that vehicle.

[Solstice2006]

Jonathan, what ever happened to the possible comparo of the Venza, Edge, and Murano?  Or are they included in the upcoming midsized SUV comparo ?

[jyarkony]

Jonathan, what ever happened to the possible comparo of the Venza, Edge, and Murano?  Or are they included in the upcoming midsized SUV comparo ?

We've got comparos of a pair of diesel SUVs, and this week we're rounding up 6 mid-size SUVs, then we have a couple of diesel executive sedans.

i was aiming for a mid-winter for those crossovers, but now i might just put it off until the new Edge arrives...

[jyarkony]

I'm on the fence.  While the scoring data would be interesting, but I do think a well written article is far more important.  I can usually read into why someone didn't like this or that and it'll give me an idea if this lands more towards a personal choice (style points, seating) and make up my own mind if I feel that would apply in my situation. 

Some data is good to help have a simple comparison breakdown between all the vehicles.
So maybe a standard can be developed that lands somewhere in-between.

I agree with Blotter (wouldn't be the first time).  I don't think scoring is needed, the articles written by the staff, along with the pictures makes this very unique.  And it's good to see they are looking for suggestions to improve. 

A table at the end of the comparison would be helpful, so when going to the dealer to test drive cars, the person has something quick to refer to, to look out for.  For example, the Dodge Dart has poor rear seat room (32 inches for example), while the Sentra (34 inches for example.  So a table of facts/data is what I am looking for, dimensions, specs, pricing, observed fuel economy, a two line summary what the writer like/disliked (pros/cons) of that vehicle.

you mean like this:

http://www.autos.ca/galleries/2013/index.php?level=picture&id=16005
http://www.autos.ca/galleries/2013/index.php?level=picture&id=16006

plus this:

http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php/topic,85989.msg942467.html#msg942467

 

That'd be easy. Done.

I, too, am on the fence. The scoresheets to me were always simply internal devices to arrive at a ranking so that we wouldn't simply have them each get high-school-yearbook awards (most likely to succeed, best dressed, tech savvy...), but to at least do it systematically - if not, i feel like cars 4-9 here are essentially a tie overall, but with various priorities and good fits for certain needs. The whole point of these exercises is to produce an article for our readers. I don't quite understand the obsession with our ratings, although i can tell you that they have become more systematic and reasoned with each comparison, but they are nowhere near as sophisticated as AJAC's combination of objective data combined with our subjective ratings from our drive loops.

however, i agree with the camp that argues that some people have only specific priorities in mind, like practicality and fuel consumption, or performance and feel, so they might be able to arrive at a personal top three from our scores, but so they should be able to from our write-ups by us highlighting each car's strengths and weaknesses. with this one especially, the number of cars ruled out getting too detailed about individual cars, so we may not have painted as clear a picture about each car or our best driver's car and most comfortable car...

[Solstice2006]

Jonathan, what ever happened to the possible comparo of the Venza, Edge, and Murano?  Or are they included in the upcoming midsized SUV comparo ?

We've got comparos of a pair of diesel SUVs, and this week we're rounding up 6 mid-size SUVs, then we have a couple of diesel executive sedans.

i was aiming for a mid-winter for those crossovers, but now i might just put it off until the new Edge arrives...

Lets see if I can guess:

A pair of diesel SUVs:  Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel and VW Touareg

6 mid-size SUVs: Mazda CX-9, Hyundai Sante Fe, Nissan Pathfinder, Kia Sorento, GMC Acadia (one of the triplets), Dodge Durango
                          Omitted are the Highlander, Pilot, Edge (too old), Outlander (not enough interest...) Explorer (nothing new for 2014), and Grand Cherokee was in the other comparo.

Diesel executive sedans (what the heck is an executive sedan?) : MB E250 Bluetec, and Audi A6 TDI

[jyarkony]

There seems to be a lot of comments on the pricing by both the reviewers and comments.  Even on Facebook and in person.

I wonder if pricing consideration needs to be adjusted.  We all know you'll never get the same priced cars from the press fleet.  So why not chose a price target in addition to testing find the features in each car you get at that price

Most likely the best choice is the volume seller which is usually the car dead middle of the range.  So Mazda GS for example.

I think there is merit in that.  Typically the only difference is a few interior features surely we can ignore those as tainting votes.

we were very close to accomplishing that with the compact SUVs (all but one at or under 35K), but it was a fortunate result. And you would think that they would carry the volume model in fleet, but that is not always the case. they often carry the loaded model only so that we can experience every conceivable feature available, although some companies carry multiple trims of various products.

if we'd gone with our price target on the compact cars, we'd have had three cars to compare, and as ArticSteve mentioned, it's the financing rates that often determine the actual sales and choices...

plus, we always let the PR teams know what trims/pricing they're up against in case they want to offer a different trim, so they can send us their most 'competitive' trim available.

in this case, we wanted all the compact cars at the same time, and even the top-spec trims in some cars simply weren't as good because of universal qualities unrelated to trim (interior/cargo space, visibility, ergonomics)

[Solstice2006]

Jonathan, yes that's the kind of table I was looking for.  I read the article, didn't go through all the pictures.  Since it's more text than pictures, maybe it could be considered the last page of the article....

[jyarkony]

Jonathan, what ever happened to the possible comparo of the Venza, Edge, and Murano?  Or are they included in the upcoming midsized SUV comparo ?

We've got comparos of a pair of diesel SUVs, and this week we're rounding up 6 mid-size SUVs, then we have a couple of diesel executive sedans.

i was aiming for a mid-winter for those crossovers, but now i might just put it off until the new Edge arrives...

Lets see if I can guess:

A pair of diesel SUVs:  Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel and VW Touareg

6 mid-size SUVs: Mazda CX-9, Hyundai Sante Fe, Nissan Pathfinder, Kia Sorento, GMC Acadia (one of the triplets), Dodge Durango
                          Omitted are the Highlander, Pilot, Edge (too old), Outlander (not enough interest...) Explorer (nothing new for 2014), and Grand Cherokee was in the other comparo.

Diesel executive sedans (what the heck is an executive sedan?) : MB E250 Bluetec, and Audi A6 TDI

close on all fronts... Jeep vs ML, Journey instead of Durango, and the A6 is the third we're hoping to secure along with the E and 5.

[jyarkony]

Mazda3
James's Review http://www.autos.ca/car-test-drives/day-by-day-review-2014-mazda3-sport-gt/4/
Simon's Review http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2014-mazda3/4/

	Average	James	Simon	Max Score
Overall	4.25	4	4.5	5
Comfort	4.25	4	4.5	5
Performance	4	4	4	5
Fuel Economy	4.5	4.5	4.5	5
Interior	4.25	4.5	4	5
Exterior Styling	4.25	4	4.5	5

or something like that.

now multiply that by 11 cars and 6 writers.... we might give this a shot for our next comparo, though, because i do see the value of it if we can do it efficiently.

[Solstice2006]

I knew it would be the E, just had to pick the 5 series or the A6, took a gamble... I thought the Journey would have been a considered a little smaller, more inline with Equinox, Santa Fe Sport, and Escape, etc.  They are easily to overlap sometimes, lines are so gray....

[jyarkony]

i posted this in the other thread, but it seems to be more appropriate here:

perhaps an excel sheet (or whatever) with the categories for the cars listed...then, the weighting is described as given in the article...for example, if there are 10 categories, perhaps the default setting is each category is worth 10 points, but the weighting is variable, so you could put specific categories higher, like value, driving dynamics, whatever...you could make them worth more and others worth less...so perhaps a car that scores lower in "style" won't get hurt as much...if such a chart/spreadsheet were available to the readers, it would allow them to formulate their own versions (i suppose they could simply make their own if they knew how)...and each reader/customer could either leave everything even or boost categories most important to them (fuel economy, space, etc).

hmmmmmm.... 

[JacobBlack]

Jonathan, yes that's the kind of table I was looking for.  I read the article, didn't go through all the pictures.  Since it's more text than pictures, maybe it could be considered the last page of the article....

That table was embedded on the last page!!

[wing]

No no I wasn't suggesting getting those trims.  But using those trims in the price factor.

Ie even if they gave you a $30k focus.  Go to the website get the contents of a mid trim at $25k and compare features that way.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[JacobBlack]

No no I wasn't suggesting getting those trims.  But using those trims in the price factor.

Ie even if they gave you a $30k focus.  Go to the website get the contents of a mid trim at $25k and compare features that way.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

So just pretend the Ford didn't have MyFord touch and judge the lower model infotainment system with our imagination?
That's why the price sheet we show has the very base price, plus the options, so it's easy to seee if a car has a cheaper trim.

[rrocket]

, is that our scoresheets represent an enormous amount of our own work and effort (intellectual property). You'd never expect anyone else to show their IP so freely and easily.

Except you can see a score sheet...even sometimes the actual hand written ones made during the testing process..... from car magazine's online versions.

And I'm sure no teeth were pulled to make that happen. And as far as I know nobody is stealing those score sheets to do their own tests. Even so, most of the categories on a good score sheet would be used for any good test (ie ride, handling, braking, fun drive, etc)

No sure why you believe this would be an issue for cars tested by Autos.ca