Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT GLS manual

[ArticSteve]

The gains of a "broken in" vehicle are about as significant as whether a person has had their daily dump before recording their mileage "gain".

One thing is for sure:  break in an engine slow, it will be slow
   
                                  break in an engine fast, it will be faster than the former

My wife's new ride is coming the week of August 27.  I will be the first one to take it off the lot and I'm going to mash it all the way down to the Card Lock for gas. 

[ArticSteve]

Automotive engines have automatic tension adjusters which take up this "slack" in the engine components over time,

Post a few pics those will ya. 

[rrocket]

From Motortrend about break-in procedures:

For answers, I rang up long-time GM engine guru Dave Lancaster, and he agrees that in smaller, low-cost air-cooled engines (which expand and contract more as temperatures change) such a technique might indeed pay off. But the microfinished bores, high-tension rings, and precision-build tolerances in today's automotive engines yield excellent ring sealing from new, so any change in power output attributable to such a radical procedure would be miniscule if measurable at all. He notes that power and fuel economy generally improve throughout the break-in period as friction diminishes in all moving parts. Ford's engine durability specialist Mike Herr concurs with all the above as do the engine R&D experts at Honda.


There you have it....GM, Ford and Honda agree that engines are broken in already when new.

[SamuelOLee]

rrocket:
I believe the variations in fuel efficiency ratings reported by different car magazines and websites on similar vehicle models is because:

1. Every vehicle, even the same make and model, is not exactly alike

2. Testers use/receive different brands/kinds of tires on their particular test vehicle

3. Testers do not usually tune up or even check to see if existing tires are balanced on a test vehicle  as it is on loan and often has to be shared with other testers due to time and cost constraints and availabilty

4. Test vehicles are driven hard and at the limit by successive teams of testers who are trying their darndest to see what the vehicle's shortcomings are, which affects reported fuel consumption

5. Test vehicles are often brand spanking new, then literally abused by a succession of different testers and different teams of testers, each with different driving styles. This is in direct contrast to a privately owned vehicle of the same make and model which is usually driven carefully by  one single driver with one specific driving style which allows the vehicle to "adapt" to that one driving style or driving condition

6. Testers are known to fudge test numbers and results in order to secure future test vehicles (short and long term), funding, advertising sponsorship, and freebies such as paid trips, merchandise, gala event invitations, and discounts on vehicles

In short, don't believe everything you read, or at least get used to the taste of salt grains.   

[SamuelOLee]

Rrocket: 

1. "I rang up long-time GM engine guru Dave Lancaster, and he agrees that in smaller, low-cost air-cooled engines (which expand and contract more as temperatures change) such a technique might indeed pay off."

>>>I work on my own bikes and my bike is a 1L air-cooled engine.  Every new motorcycle I've owned has had noticeable increases in power the longer it was ridden. 
As for fuel economy, I don't think even once in my life have I ever tried to calculate the fuel economy for my vehicle or ride. In short, I don't give a about fuel economy. 

2. "He notes that power and fuel economy generally improve throughout the break-in period as friction diminishes in all moving parts."

>>>I never said that the engine was the only place in a vehicle where reduced friction improves power and fuel economy. I mentioned the engine because it's the only part of a car or motorcycle which I have experience working on. 

Articsteve:

You're probably right about the break-in period being more about a manufacturer's legal liability in regards to warranty coverage. I have always followed the recommended break-in period guidelines but perhaps it is just b.s.  With my bikes I have usually just stayed under the recommended  rpm for the first 1000 km and varied the load on the engine by pulling hard uphill and constantly changing my shift points. 

As for you wanting to see pics of automatically adjusting engine parts, i believe there are several bikes with gear driven cams which have automatic tensioners. I think it was the 1988 CB-1, or was it the old VFRs ? Can't remember right now

Btw, you guys are both pretty  smug for newlyweds.  Must be an Ontario thing.  Could be a brain tumour!  Maybe you should each wear a hockey helmet on your head when you take your annual bath

hehe!

[dirtyjeffer]

From Motortrend about break-in procedures:

For answers, I rang up long-time GM engine guru Dave Lancaster, and he agrees that in smaller, low-cost air-cooled engines (which expand and contract more as temperatures change) such a technique might indeed pay off. But the microfinished bores, high-tension rings, and precision-build tolerances in today's automotive engines yield excellent ring sealing from new, so any change in power output attributable to such a radical procedure would be miniscule if measurable at all. He notes that power and fuel economy generally improve throughout the break-in period as friction diminishes in all moving parts. Ford's engine durability specialist Mike Herr concurs with all the above as do the engine R&D experts at Honda.


There you have it....GM, Ford and Honda agree that engines are broken in already when new.

ummm...i think you need to re-read what you posted...you just proved our point...let me highlight it for you.

"...so any change in power output attributable to such a radical procedure would be miniscule if measurable at all."

we aren't talking about power output, we are talking about fuel economy.

"He notes that power and fuel economy generally improve throughout the break-in period as friction diminishes in all moving parts. Ford's engine durability specialist Mike Herr concurs with all the above as do the engine R&D experts at Honda.[/i]"

which is exactly what we said...fuel economy improves.

[Cord]

Automotive engines have automatic tension adjusters which take up this "slack" in the engine components over time,

Post a few pics those will ya. 

That's it?

Who are you and what have you done with articsteve?

[rrocket]

which is exactly what we said...fuel economy improves.

But as I said initially...it's not from "breaking in" the engine...which is already done by the time you have it.

[dirtyjeffer]

But as I said initially...it's not from "breaking in" the engine...which is already done by the time you have it.

it isn't "JUST" from breaking in the engine, but a combination off all the drivetrain components...the engine is certainly part of it...the article you linked clearly states that friction diminishes in ALL moving parts...there are a lot of moving parts in an engine (and it is also the source of "power" for the vehicle), so it makes perfect sense that fuel economy would improve after a few thousand kms...as i said, mine has settled down reasonably well.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Has the car change probably not that much, I would put down as the driver changing to much his car
That problem with car views , the review does not get to know the car to understand how to best to operate the car

[rrocket]

But as I said initially...it's not from "breaking in" the engine...which is already done by the time you have it.

it isn't "JUST" from breaking in the engine, but a combination off all the drivetrain components...the engine is certainly part of it...the article you linked clearly states that friction diminishes in ALL moving parts...there are a lot of moving parts in an engine (and it is also the source of "power" for the vehicle), so it makes perfect sense that fuel economy would improve after a few thousand kms...as i said, mine has settled down reasonably well.

I think perhaps we're confused about the term engine "break in".   In the past, the break in was required because of loose tolerances, material conditioning, etc.  The car had to be driven only certain RPM and/or allowed to hear cycle for X number of KMs.  The break-in helped seat the valves, seat the rings, wear in the bores, etc. and prevented oil blow, allowed proper compression etc.  This is no longer the case.  The engine is broke in by the time you get the car.  Baby it or drive it like you stole it, the rings are already seated and mating surfaces are as they need to be.

This is not to be confused with all moving parts wearing in and reducing friction....which may account for a slight reduction in MPG.

[Snowman]

But as I said initially...it's not from "breaking in" the engine...which is already done by the time you have it.

it isn't "JUST" from breaking in the engine, but a combination off all the drivetrain components...the engine is certainly part of it...the article you linked clearly states that friction diminishes in ALL moving parts...there are a lot of moving parts in an engine (and it is also the source of "power" for the vehicle), so it makes perfect sense that fuel economy would improve after a few thousand kms...as i said, mine has settled down reasonably well.

I think perhaps we're confused about the term engine "break in".   In the past, the break in was required because of loose tolerances, material conditioning, etc.  The car had to be driven only certain RPM and/or allowed to hear cycle for X number of KMs.  The break-in helped seat the valves, seat the rings, wear in the bores, etc. and prevented oil blow, allowed proper compression etc.  This is no longer the case.  The engine is broke in by the time you get the car.  Baby it or drive it like you stole it, the rings are already seated and mating surfaces are as they need to be.

This is not to be confused with all moving parts wearing in and reducing friction....which may account for a slight reduction in MPG.

Exactly, and I agree 100%. I have never experienced a significant improvement in fuel consumption in any vehicle I purchased in the past 15 years. But I don't drive like a pu$$y either.

[SamuelOLee]

I think Toyota, Nissan, GM and Honda will probably suffer the most sales-wise from the Elantra GT, as the high value of the Japanese Yen has basically de-contented many of their compact offerings.  The Matrix is stuck in no-man's land with good handling and cargo space, but a pretty gaudy cheapo interior. The Yaris, though a sub-compact, had a much better interior design in its previous iteration than the current version which is extremely Spartan.  The Versa is a complete bust as it does not distinguish itself in the segment in any respect.  I rather like the Cruze inside and out, but cannot for the life of me understand why GM does not offer it as a 5-door hatchback.  Honda is the most interesting scenario, as the Civic has been losing its loyal sport-compact following step-by-step after dropping the IRS and 5-door configuration.

Ford, Mazda, and VW, on the other hand, continue to offer very good competitive compact hatchbacks. The Fiesta is an attractive and well-built car,  the Golf is the driving enthusiast's pick with conservative yet classic design language, and the Mazda 3GT 2.5 (not SkyActiv) is a great all-around package.  I'm partial to Mazda because it still builds its vehicles in Japan and give their customers excellent after-sales service and follow-up as though they were part of a family.  Zoom-Zoom!  I've been waiting for this Elantra GT 5-door for a couple of years now, and am pretty excited to see it in the metal.  Looks very nice judging from the photos I've seen so far.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Selling it with 1.9% for 84 months will sell this  car

[dirtyjeffer]

Selling it with 1.9% for 84 months will sell this  car

that, and the fact it is a pretty decent car.

[JMB]

What's with automakers not offering manual transmission on their top models?  So if I want a manual I can't have auto climate control?  How does that make any sense? Yet another reason I've been a devoted Mazda buyer.  Currently in a 2010 Mazda3 GT, with 6 speed manual. 

[dkaz]

Oddly, you can get an Accent GLS 5-door with 6 speed manual and automatic climate control.

[dkaz]

By the way, 8.7 L/100km sheesh, might as well own a Mazda 3 GT, gobs more fun to drive, more power too.