Author Topic: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes  (Read 26626 times)

Offline JacobBlack

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2015, 12:12:10 pm »
The other problem, what if you are in the middle of splitting the lane and traffic starts picking up speed? I bet folks are REALLY friendly about you re-entering the flow.

Good question! Where it's happened to me in countries where it's legal - they're fine.
In countries where it's illegal, they're still fine 70% of the time and understandably grumpy the other 30% of the time.

And for all the big-mouths out in the world, there's actually a very, very small amount of people who will actually try to collide with you. Be assertive and take your spot and you'll have no dramas. And good road position plus situational awareness makes escaping someone who's being aggressive really, really easy. Filtering and splitting is not something you can do just dawdling about, it requires extra attention from you as a rider if you're going to do it, but it's worth it.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2015, 12:16:32 pm »
Honestly, I have no issues with it, give 'er as far as I'm concerned. With the amount of bike collisions and close calls I have personally seen, I just do not think that this would be a good idea here. There are tons of a-holes here that will not let you merge or change lanes if your lane ends/is blocked.....I do not think that we are ready for such a revolution here.
Lighten up Francis.....

Offline dkaz

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2015, 12:18:22 pm »
In 60% of collisions where the driver is at fault, it's a rear ender. Rear enders are minor nuisances in a car but potentially dangerous for a motorcyclist. Lane splitting has been proven to reduce rear enders. Whether they increase being side swiped, hm does anyone have the stats on that?

Offline JacobBlack

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2015, 12:20:56 pm »
In 60% of collisions where the driver is at fault, it's a rear ender. Rear enders are minor nuisances in a car but potentially dangerous for a motorcyclist. Lane splitting has been proven to reduce rear enders. Whether they increase being side swiped, hm does anyone have the stats on that?

Yeah, the Berkley study demonstrated that it drops accidents of all types over all.

Offline Schmengie

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2015, 12:23:28 pm »
Legal or not - that behaviour is illegal.  We have draconian enforcement on loud pipes here - but only for bike, not for cars/trucks.   ::)

And splitting at 2x the limit is illegal no matter the laws about splitting.

There's no enforcement here at all judging by how often I hear loud bikes accelerating with wide-open throttles down the country road near our house which is at least a half-dozen times a day. Making lane-splitting legal would assume that most bikers ride responsibly and within the law and too many of them just don't give a damn. Some serious education needs to be done first, and I mean SERIOUS.
' Saw an Alfalfa Romeeo go by - furrin sports car forty feet long, mebbe nine inches high.' - Charlie Farquharson

Offline mnztr

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2015, 12:32:26 pm »
I have done lane splitting in Toronto when traffic is stopped. It is very safe and saves a ton of time. When you are in traffic on a bike, on a hot day, it can become unbearable. I figured the odds of a cop catching me in that traffic were pretty low, so I went for it. I would do it again in the same circumstances.

Offline tazcubed

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2015, 12:51:06 pm »
The only way I would drive a motorcycle in Toronto and feel somewhat safe...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_2


Offline Snowman

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2015, 12:52:48 pm »
In 60% of collisions where the driver is at fault, it's a rear ender. Rear enders are minor nuisances in a car but potentially dangerous for a motorcyclist. Lane splitting has been proven to reduce rear enders. Whether they increase being side swiped, hm does anyone have the stats on that?

Yeah, the Berkley study demonstrated that it drops accidents of all types over all.

I see no study data or detail. Just what someone said about it.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2015, 12:53:01 pm »
The only way I would drive a motorcycle in Toronto and feel somewhat safe...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_2

 :rofl2: :rofl2:

With or without the MG34 machine gun??  ;D

Offline tazcubed

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2015, 12:55:16 pm »
The only way I would drive a motorcycle in Toronto and feel somewhat safe...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_2

 :rofl2: :rofl2:

With or without the MG34 machine gun??  ;D

Machine gun AND rear mounted cannon...especially for those tailgaters...the machine gun would certainly make it easier to do lane changes.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 01:02:40 pm by tazcubed »

Offline GS

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2015, 01:38:53 pm »
As a long time motorcyclist and former riding instructor I would be pleased to see this legalized.  It would need a long education period for both drivers and bikers before taking effect, but would surely reduce congestion as long as it could be made safe (by consideration from both drivers and bikers).  By the way, I never lane split but would if it was legal.

In Ontario, it would only be wise in the April to November riding season.  Lane splitting on icy, rutted city streets covered in salt and sand would not be wise.  A re-education blitz would have to be mounted each spring to remind everyone of the rules.

And those screaming idiots who lane split on highways - they'll do it no matter what laws exist. 

Offline Kris78

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2015, 01:40:23 pm »
In 60% of collisions where the driver is at fault, it's a rear ender. Rear enders are minor nuisances in a car but potentially dangerous for a motorcyclist. Lane splitting has been proven to reduce rear enders. Whether they increase being side swiped, hm does anyone have the stats on that?

Yeah, the Berkley study demonstrated that it drops accidents of all types over all.

I see no study data or detail. Just what someone said about it.

In my attempt to find it, I found two... A report in 2014, and another in 2015. I have not read them at all, so I'm not sure what kind of overlap may exist between the two...

http://www.ots.ca.gov/pdf/publications/2014mclanesplittingsurvey.pdf

http://www.ots.ca.gov/pdf/Publications/Motorcycle-Lane-Splitting-and-Safety-2015.pdf

Offline Noto

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2015, 02:14:59 pm »
Pointing out from Kris78's articles:
Quote
Lane-splitting on freeways
Daily (6-7 days a week) motorcycle riders more frequently lane-split on freeways, with 36.5% of frequent
riders engaging in lane-splitting compared to 7.1% of infrequent riders
(less than once a week). The
difference in frequency of lane splitting behavior is significant (Table M15). A general emerging trend is
that frequent MC riders are more likely to lane split than infrequent riders.

Quote
The younger the rider, the more frequently they lane-split on both freeways and other multiple-lane
roads (75.0% of all respondents between the ages of 18 and 24 lane split; Table M23)

Quote
Speed of traffic while lane-splitting
Overall, there has been a slight reduction of lane-splitting at all speeds and at traffic being at a standstill,
with the exception of traffic moving at a stop-and-go speed, with shows a significant 11.4% increase
between 2014 and 2013 (Table M28).

Quote
Perceived threats while lane-splitting and traffic violations
Compared to the most serious threats stated in 2013, there has been a significant 6.1% increase in 2014
of MC riders mentioning drivers distracted by cells or by texting

From the 2nd article:
Quote
Lane-splitting is legal and is widely practiced by motorcyclists in California. Of the almost 6,000
collision-involved motorcyclists we studied, nearly 1,000 were lane-splitting at the time of their
collision.
so 1/6th of all collisions in Cali occur while the riders are lane-splitting.
...however:
Quote
Lane-splitting motorcyclists were much less often injured during their collisions.
They were considerably less likely to suffer head injury, torso injury, extremity injury, and fatal
injury than riders who were not lane-splitting.

Quote
The findings from this analysis suggest that countermeasures to alter the way motorcyclists
lane-split are likely to result in reductions in injury. Many motorcyclists may not understand
how lane-splitting at excessive traffic speed creates unnecessary risk. It is in high-speed
environments where lane-splitting has the lowest benefit to the motorcyclist, and high-speed
lane-splitting could be reduced or eliminated from California roadways without significant loss
of the overall potential benefits of lane-splitting, which include reductions in fuel consumption,
emissions, and traffic congestion.
...so the argument here is that the drivers needing education are those riding the lane-splitting motorcycles and less so drivers of surrounding cars.

I would support that more - you have to carry a specific licence to be allowed to lane-split, perhaps as an added component of the M2-exit licence test (that is, if you don't demonstrate good lane-splitting behaviour, you can get your M, but to be allowed to lane-split, and get the full non-restricted "M" licence, you would have to pass an additional test component).  At least that's one way to mitigate, I suppose.

Since my opinions here are relatively unpopular, I'll leave my criticisms out of this and simply write a suggestion to make the implementation that much more effective.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2015, 02:16:42 pm »
Pointing out from Kris78's articles:
Quote
Lane-splitting on freeways
Daily (6-7 days a week) motorcycle riders more frequently lane-split on freeways, with 36.5% of frequent
riders engaging in lane-splitting compared to 7.1% of infrequent riders
(less than once a week). The
difference in frequency of lane splitting behavior is significant (Table M15). A general emerging trend is
that frequent MC riders are more likely to lane split than infrequent riders.

Quote
The younger the rider, the more frequently they lane-split on both freeways and other multiple-lane
roads (75.0% of all respondents between the ages of 18 and 24 lane split; Table M23)

Quote
Speed of traffic while lane-splitting
Overall, there has been a slight reduction of lane-splitting at all speeds and at traffic being at a standstill,
with the exception of traffic moving at a stop-and-go speed, with shows a significant 11.4% increase
between 2014 and 2013 (Table M28).

Quote
Perceived threats while lane-splitting and traffic violations
Compared to the most serious threats stated in 2013, there has been a significant 6.1% increase in 2014
of MC riders mentioning drivers distracted by cells or by texting

From the 2nd article:
Quote
Lane-splitting is legal and is widely practiced by motorcyclists in California. Of the almost 6,000
collision-involved motorcyclists we studied, nearly 1,000 were lane-splitting at the time of their
collision.
so 1/6th of all collisions in Cali occur while the riders are lane-splitting.
...however:
Quote
Lane-splitting motorcyclists were much less often injured during their collisions.
They were considerably less likely to suffer head injury, torso injury, extremity injury, and fatal
injury than riders who were not lane-splitting.

Quote
The findings from this analysis suggest that countermeasures to alter the way motorcyclists
lane-split are likely to result in reductions in injury. Many motorcyclists may not understand
how lane-splitting at excessive traffic speed creates unnecessary risk. It is in high-speed
environments where lane-splitting has the lowest benefit to the motorcyclist, and high-speed
lane-splitting could be reduced or eliminated from California roadways without significant loss
of the overall potential benefits of lane-splitting, which include reductions in fuel consumption,
emissions, and traffic congestion.
...so the argument here is that the drivers needing education are those riding the lane-splitting motorcycles and less so drivers of surrounding cars.

I would support that more - you have to carry a specific licence to be allowed to lane-split, perhaps as an added component of the M2-exit licence test (that is, if you don't demonstrate good lane-splitting behaviour, you can get your M, but to be allowed to lane-split, and get the full non-restricted "M" licence, you would have to pass an additional test component).  At least that's one way to mitigate, I suppose.

Since my opinions here are relatively unpopular, I'll leave my criticisms out of this and simply write a suggestion to make the implementation that much more effective.

The hell with all your naysayers, you usually have a well backed up and thought out opinion.......

Offline aquadorhj

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2015, 02:19:52 pm »

Since my opinions here are relatively unpopular, I'll leave my criticisms out of this and simply write a suggestion to make the implementation that much more effective.



LOL, Fob already backed you up, but i'll also leave my 2c here.

most of us a jostling with ya anyway.  don't take it personal, and you don't have to justify yourself to us, we anin't your boss, man!!!
keep your chin up  ;D ;D

Driving thrills makes my wallet lighter.. and therefore makes me faster because i'm shedding weight... :D

Offline Noto

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2015, 02:35:36 pm »
LOL, Fob already backed you up, but i'll also leave my 2c here.

most of us a jostling with ya anyway.  don't take it personal, and you don't have to justify yourself to us, we anin't your boss, man!!!
keep your chin up  ;D ;D
The hell with all your naysayers, you usually have a well backed up and thought out opinion.......
I :love: you guys!!

Jacob, it may be time for me to leave you.  :rofl2:

Offline johngenx

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2015, 03:09:00 pm »
Jacob, it may be time for me to leave you.  :rofl2:

His, uh, well, he'll miss you...

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2015, 03:11:49 pm »
LOL, Fob already backed you up, but i'll also leave my 2c here.

most of us a jostling with ya anyway.  don't take it personal, and you don't have to justify yourself to us, we anin't your boss, man!!!
keep your chin up  ;D ;D
The hell with all your naysayers, you usually have a well backed up and thought out opinion.......
I :love: you guys!!

Jacob, it may be time for me to leave you.  :rofl2:


Offline Noto

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2015, 03:19:36 pm »
 :rofl:

Fob, you kill me sometimes.

Offline mmret

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Re: Monday Rant: Motorbikes Could Solve Traffic Woes
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2015, 03:32:26 pm »
My issue with this is that it creates ambiguity over who has right to what space and who is liable for damages when something happens.

If lane splitting is happening and a car wants to accelerate a bit and pass a bike that is moving slowly, and the bike drifts over to avoid a pothole, and gets hit by the car, who is at fault?

Our legal procedure doesn't leave much room for ":censor: happens" - so someone has to take the blame. This is why lane markings exist - to establish boundaries.

Otherwise we might as well do away with lanes altogether.
You can't just have your characters announce how they feel.
That makes me feel angry!

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