Author Topic: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro  (Read 14363 times)

Offline ktm525

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2016, 09:01:45 pm »
This car is tiny on the inside. Very little utility as the hatch area is limited vertically. If you don't mind 4 pots then the upcoming  4 cylinder  Volvo V90 FTW! 

Offline itsMarc

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2016, 11:54:48 pm »
Is it just me, or does the allroad's rear look a little like the Outback's? ???

Offline TheHire

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2016, 12:47:50 am »
Yeah, to all those comparing this to a Golf - not even close. The Golf's underpinnings are MQB; shared with the A3 and TT. The A4/Allroad are MLB.
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Offline quadzilla

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2016, 06:20:30 am »
Yeah, to all those comparing this to a Golf - not even close. The Golf's underpinnings are MQB; shared with the A3 and TT. The A4/Allroad are MLB.

I don't think anybody is denying these two cars (alltrack vs allroad) are very different. Just that many of us would buy the Golf instead and pocket the difference or buy a Miata or a new bike or a home theater or a six month vacation. Think you get the idea.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2016, 06:21:49 am »
This car is tiny on the inside. Very little utility as the hatch area is limited vertically. If you don't mind 4 pots then the upcoming  4 cylinder  Volvo V90 FTW!

Compared to my GTI this thing is huge. ;)

Offline alljay

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2016, 09:21:04 pm »
Is it just me, or does the allroad's rear look a little like the Outback's? ???

I thought the same thing, especially in white.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2016, 03:22:20 pm »
It's too bad the backlight is so sloped. It gives up a fair bit of space.



It's better on the All-Track.



In any event, I'm glad they're at least making the attempt to sell wagons here.
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Offline ktm525

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 10:34:20 am »
This car is tiny on the inside. Very little utility as the hatch area is limited vertically. If you don't mind 4 pots then the upcoming  4 cylinder  Volvo V90 FTW!

Compared to my GTI this thing is huge. ;)

i'd say overall the v90, while looking really awesome, is going to be at least 10k more than the allroad.

Are you kidding me? The last Allroad was $50ish+ with decent options.. The Volvo is going to be in the $60s? Yikes!

Offline OliverD

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2016, 11:00:35 am »
This car is tiny on the inside. Very little utility as the hatch area is limited vertically. If you don't mind 4 pots then the upcoming  4 cylinder  Volvo V90 FTW!

Compared to my GTI this thing is huge. ;)

i'd say overall the v90, while looking really awesome, is going to be at least 10k more than the allroad.

Are you kidding me? The last Allroad was $50ish+ with decent options.. The Volvo is going to be in the $60s? Yikes!

The last Allroad started at $47,300. The S90 starts at $56,900 so just under $60k sounds about right for the V90.

Offline chignectohead

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2016, 09:14:47 pm »
Well, Audi has succumbed to ditching the centre differential full time quattro in favour of clutches and mumbo jumbo. At least I owned two real quattro cars while the going was good.

I couldn't fully understand the new AWD explanation in this article, but Audi Media Centre to the rescue! Here we discover illogic spread thick, speaking from my viewpoint as a mechanical engineer:

https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/quattro-with-ultra-technology-the-permanently-available-all-wheel-drive-system-5503

and download the .pdf for Audi's explanation written on banana skins.

Yes, this "permanently available" AWD is not on duty all the time, just "available". Thus it is dubbed "quattro ultra" in marketing doublespeak, elevating a non-descript concept to that of Wowee, Folks! this is the latest and greatest.

All this stuff shoehorned into the new A4 Allroad is apparently an attempt to save 0.3l/100km mileage. Or the square root of a headwind plus leaving the dog at home to save weight divided by blind hope. It is of course presumably cheaper to manufacture and saving all of 10 lbs from a 3671 lb car (as per C/D's weigh-in on the sedan at a portly 1667 kg).

At least Audi do not claim 100% of the power can be sent to either front or rear as needed, because that is Mr Yarkony's remark alone, and is impossible with the series clutch on the end of the transmission. No, you get FWD or AWD with varying torque to the rear depending on how hard that clutch clamps. Yes, Audi has now made a version of the Subaru MPT system first introduced in 1988, yea these 28 years ago! BMW also copied it for the 2005 X-Drives, ditching diffs. And which Subaru's better VTD system with centre differential surpassed easily, although all gone on all regular civilian Subarus now, the 2014 Outback 3.6R having the last one if specs are to be believed. My old Leggy GT has VTD, thank goodness.

Proceeding apace, yes, we find "ultra quattro" is similar to the rear axle and main propeller shaft declutching to the Chrysler 200 AWD. But lo, Audi says those hydraulically actuated systems are no good. No, they need to be electrically actuated. OK, but they keep the hydraulic engagement on the A3/S3 as their .pdf shows. Oh well, why be consistent? That would be no fun.

No, this permanently "available" ultra quattro on the A4 is predictive! As well as being reactive and proactive! It knows when to go to AWD before the need arises apparently, fortune telling on a grand scale by the Audi engineering staff. It takes 200 to 250 milliseconds to engage AWD and to get the propshaft up to speed then a spring bangs in the dog-clutch on the rear axle to engage the half-shafts. Luckily for we mere mortals, Audi has us covered because it knows half-a-second ahead that AWD will be required.

All this cannot really pass the smell test. From the Audi article:

"With reactive activation, which rarely  occurs  in  practice, the system reacts  to sudden changes  in  the  coefficient of friction. These  occur, for example,  when  the wheels go from dry asphalt to a sheet of ice."

With these words, typical Canadian driving conditions are chucked out the window, because they "rarely occur in practice". So there. We've all been dreaming four months a year. And a quarter second or more goes by with FWD only. Great.

The Subaru MPT system keeps the rear wheels on duty all the time, throwing away a quite possibly ephemeral 0.3l/100 km in the process. It also avoids a whole lot of fancy electronic fandango and egghead scientific hot air attempting to explain this as a boon to mankind.

This new "ultra quattro" is to be spread far and wide in the longitudinal engine Audi AWD models. What a load of technocratic BS to describe a system less capable than the existing one.

I remain duly unimpressed with ultra quattro. Mere words to justify an unrequired solution, to ease manufacturing costs, and to impress what the Brits call "punters". It is in fact Haldex Ultra. No more.

Offline mixmanmash

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2016, 01:00:56 am »
^^^ I would tend to agree.

At least you can get some models with a proper centre differential (i.e. RS5).

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2016, 01:46:15 am »
You can thank the CAFE standards for the new watered-down Quattro. 0.3l/100kms might mean nothing to you or me, but it could mean millions in fines to VAG.

And what are the marketers supposed to say? "New quattro - It's more complicated and doesn't work as well, but Obama made us do it!" isn't much of a marketing slogan.

Offline tpl

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2016, 05:18:34 am »
Now the 'Big 3'  are just the 'Detroit 3'  I don't see why we in Canada should be forced to follow the US standards for CAFE...and some other things in the automotive world.  Especially CAFE with its rather less exacting standards for big p/u trucks to satisfy the politics.
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Offline EV-Light

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2016, 05:13:05 pm »
^^^ CAFE is not alone here...Euro 6 and Euro 7 are as strict.

Offline ktm525

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2016, 01:12:36 pm »
This car is tiny on the inside. Very little utility as the hatch area is limited vertically. If you don't mind 4 pots then the upcoming  4 cylinder  Volvo V90 FTW!

Compared to my GTI this thing is huge. ;)

i'd say overall the v90, while looking really awesome, is going to be at least 10k more than the allroad.

Are you kidding me? The last Allroad was $50ish+ with decent options.. The Volvo is going to be in the $60s? Yikes!

The last Allroad started at $47,300. The S90 starts at $56,900 so just under $60k sounds about right for the V90.

Actually the V90 may be less than a $10k premium. The last Allroad may have started at $47,300 but in true Audi fashion many items were options (and available standard on a $25k Kia  ;D) and the price easily settled in the high 50s. What Volvo needs to do is to strip that V90 out and put a FWD version an sale for about $30k. :thumbup:

am i kidding who...what?  i said the v90 would be at least 10k more than the allroad, and it is.

Offline OliverD

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4 Allroad Quattro
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2016, 09:13:36 pm »
I doubt the new allroad is going to be much more than the present one.

The cost of the base A4 went up $400 with the new model so yeah, I wouldn't expect the price of the Allroad to move much.