Topic: IIHS's small overlap test - still think it's useless?

[Noto]

An F-150 allegedly crossed the centre line in Thornhill today and did a 25% overlap head-on with a Viva (YRT) Bus.  25 year old driver pronounced dead on the scene.  The speed limit is 50km/h in this area.

See attached for a screenshot:

[Fobroader]

Thats a lot of damage for "50km/h".....also.....why did the driver cross the center line??

[quadzilla]

I'm guessing it was more than 50kph and the overlap test made zero difference in this example. Hitting a bus with something much smaller you just lose.

[aaronk]

That's a shame. Assuming both vehicles were traveling at the time, the combined speed would be more like 100-120 km/h if one is comparing to a crash test. I typically balk at the small overlap test, but this does seem to be a collision where better front corner reinforcement may have made a difference in the chance of survival.

[Fobroader]

That's a shame. Assuming both vehicles were traveling at the time, the combined speed would be more like 100-120 km/h if one is comparing to a crash test. I typically balk at the small overlap test, but this does seem to be a collision where better front corner reinforcement may have made a difference in the chance of survival.

Actually Mythbusters debunked that theory, the speed of a vehicle in a head one do not add together.

[aquadorhj]

driver of the f150 deserved his or her fate, and yeah, i think small overlap test is useless. 

trucks don't adhere to the same crash standard either, anyway.

[Noto]

Thats a lot of damage for "50km/h".....also.....why did the driver cross the center line??

I didn't say that either vehicle was travelling at the limit - only that's what the limit is.  The area of impact is pretty near the bottom of a shallow-ish valley, so both would have travelled downhill before the impact.  The Viva buses, however, are frequently known to drive at the speed limit and not a km/h above it.

I suspect the truck was travelling far faster, however.

There is a centre turn lane, which makes it odd that the bus would have been anywhere near it (though could explain what the truck was doing - passing in the centre turn lane).

I typically balk at the small overlap test, but this does seem to be a collision where better front corner reinforcement may have made a difference in the chance of survival.

That's my point - and to aqua's, I'm not even referring to the standard - but small overlaps do happen and with some pretty gruesome outcomes.

I agree that almost anything vs bus will lose to the bus, but this wasn't a Mitsu Mirage we're talking about here, but an F-150.  Not such a small beast.  The structure completely collapsed.

IIHS did not do the small overlap for it, but otherwise found the F-150 Crew Cab to be a safe truck.

[redman]

  ^^^
^^^^
Isn't a good sign if the structure minus the passenger cab get's destroyed ? Does this not mean that the structure absorbed the force of the crash as opposed to the occupants ?

[mlin32]

This may be once instance where the small overlap occurs but when I still think the test is unnecessary. It simply is a relatively small subset of collisions that does not occur that frequently. Plus, I don't think the test involves running into a transit bus....

[quadzilla]

If you want scary....Watch this older video.

2001 F150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix-JjIRWOBU

[ArticSteve]

Was the driver wearing their belt?

What was the speed of the F150? 

Interesting photo, but fairly pointless.

[Noto]

Isn't a good sign if the structure minus the passenger cab get's destroyed ? Does this not mean that the structure absorbed the force of the crash as opposed to the occupants ?

You want the front end to crumple and absorb the impact.  If the structure fails, as it did here, then the occupants are not protected due to the space being compromised.

Plus, I don't think the test involves running into a transit bus....

No.  The overlap has the vehicle hitting a pole (unmovable by the force of the impact).  Cannot be worse than the bus's mass.

...and the overlap tests occur at 40mph (65km/h). 

[johngenx]

I don't think any crash tests are meaningless.  However, I also tend to not base a lot of my buying decision on them.  Otherwise, there'd be no way I'd drive my old Miata or ride motorcycles.

[mmret]

That's a shame. Assuming both vehicles were traveling at the time, the combined speed would be more like 100-120 km/h if one is comparing to a crash test. I typically balk at the small overlap test, but this does seem to be a collision where better front corner reinforcement may have made a difference in the chance of survival.

Actually Mythbusters debunked that theory, the speed of a vehicle in a head one do not add together.

Yep high school physics. Energy mv^2/2. Also on a related point and quite intuitively you're better to crash into a stationary bus going at 120km/h than be stationary and have a bus going 120km/h crash into you as well.

However momentum, which determines who gets knocked out on their ass, is linearly proportional to mass x velocity.

[rrocket]

That's a shame. Assuming both vehicles were traveling at the time, the combined speed would be more like 100-120 km/h if one is comparing to a crash test. I typically balk at the small overlap test, but this does seem to be a collision where better front corner reinforcement may have made a difference in the chance of survival.

Actually Mythbusters debunked that theory, the speed of a vehicle in a head one do not add together.

Yep high school physics. Energy mv^2/2. Also on a related point and quite intuitively you're better to crash into a stationary bus going at 120km/h than be stationary and have a bus going 120km/h crash into you as well.

However momentum, which determines who gets knocked out on their ass, is linearly proportional to mass x velocity.

Yep. This is why a large car (LS430) with a Top Safety rating will "win" every time vs a small car (Mazda3) with a Top Safety + rating.  Mass wins.

[ArticSteve]

Also on a related point and quite intuitively you're better to crash into a stationary bus going at 120km/h than be stationary and have a bus going 120km/h crash into you as well.

Good to know 


Ford F-150 regular cab, SuperCab join SuperCrew with 5-star safety ratings
 

Automotive News
April 22, 2015 - 7:00 pm ET

DETROIT -- The redesigned Ford F-150 pickup has earned the government’s highest possible crash safety rating, answering worries that the truck’s all-new aluminum body would compromise crashworthiness.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration gave its top overall rating -- five stars -- to the SuperCab configuration, which represents roughly 25 percent of F-150 sales, Ford Motor Co. said late Wednesday. The regular cab version of the F-150, which accounts for five percent of F-150 volume, also was rated at five stars overall, according to NHTSA’s website.

Last week, the 2015 F-150 SuperCrew received an overall five-star rating, in both the two-wheel-drive and four-wheel-drive configurations. That’s up from the 2014 truck’s ratings of four stars overall.

The SuperCrew, SuperCab and regular cab versions of the 2015 pickup each received five stars for frontal-crash and side-crash safety, and four stars for rollover safety.

The redesigned F-150, which weighs about 700 pounds less than the 2014 version, has 31 safety-related innovations, including an advanced occupant-restraint system and a 12-corner front crush horn, which helps dissipate energy in a frontal-impact crash.

Ford relied heavily on supercomputers early in the development process to balance weight savings, durability, fuel economy and crashworthiness. It developed digital safety models with nearly 1.4 million individual elements to see how parts throughout the truck would hold up in a crash long before conducting any physical tests.

Engineers used about three times as much adhesive as in the 2014 F-150, creating greater structural strength than with traditional welds. In testing, they said the metal pulls apart before the adhesive gives way.

[tooscoops]

no crash test is useless... but like john, I am not buying based on those, especially the more uncommon accidents.

anyway, i'm confused by this one... the mass of the bus means it shouldn't have moved much after the accident... so why is it on such a huge angle toward the center of the road? it is covering all three lanes... are they certain the bus wasn't the vehicle that crossed the line? unless the truck had crossed over so far that the bus was trying to avoid the accident by veering towards the center....

anywho... tragic and all that. accidents happen though, and knee jerk reactions wont help the general population.

[tpl]

These modern buses are rear engined so the front is relatively light.  A pickup truck proabaly weighs 2 tonnes and a report I saw suggests that it was speeding so lots of V^2