Author Topic: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1  (Read 33001 times)

Offline jpd

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #100 on: December 05, 2012, 04:23:48 pm »
According to http://autos.ca.msn.com/specials/green-driving-guide/is-there-a-diesel-car-in-your-future

TDI clean diesels account for almost one third of VWs sold in Canada

Offline Patrick_D1

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #101 on: December 05, 2012, 05:43:07 pm »

It's cost mixed with North American diesel take rates. The costs of adapting an engine to meet emissions standards here is very high, and the projected volumes are usually pretty low. Doesn't make a great business case, unfortunately.

Gonna dispute your hypothsis there, Force  - or at least part of it.  North American diesel take rates are indeed low - but not when you consider the limited availability of diesels! 

Preface: the following is my view as an enthusiast, not as a company rep. I can certainly appreciate your counterpoint - it is indeed a bit of a circular reference, in my humble opinion. The element missing in this discussion so far, however, is price. Diesel is a more expensive technology not only because of the cost to certify it here in North America, but also because of the technologies and components required to do so. Advanced particulate traps, urea injection, etc. - all these add cost. Higher cost influences take rate a great deal, especially in price-sensitive segments (which covers many of the categories we play in).

I'm not the person making these decisions, nor am I privy to the detailed discussions themselves, but I'm sure some very smart people have performed exhaustive calculations on the viability of diesel, especially in light of ever-increasing fleet fuel economy requirements. Without intending to conclude with too broad a statement, I can only say that if Hyundai (a company no one would accuse of lacking ambition) hasn't brought their excellent diesel engines over, I'm sure there's a very good reason.
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Offline SaskSpecV

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #102 on: December 05, 2012, 06:58:21 pm »

It's cost mixed with North American diesel take rates. The costs of adapting an engine to meet emissions standards here is very high, and the projected volumes are usually pretty low. Doesn't make a great business case, unfortunately.

Gonna dispute your hypothsis there, Force  - or at least part of it.  North American diesel take rates are indeed low - but not when you consider the limited availability of diesels! 

Preface: the following is my view as an enthusiast, not as a company rep. I can certainly appreciate your counterpoint - it is indeed a bit of a circular reference, in my humble opinion. The element missing in this discussion so far, however, is price. Diesel is a more expensive technology not only because of the cost to certify it here in North America, but also because of the technologies and components required to do so. Advanced particulate traps, urea injection, etc. - all these add cost. Higher cost influences take rate a great deal, especially in price-sensitive segments (which covers many of the categories we play in).

I'm not the person making these decisions, nor am I privy to the detailed discussions themselves, but I'm sure some very smart people have performed exhaustive calculations on the viability of diesel, especially in light of ever-increasing fleet fuel economy requirements. Without intending to conclude with too broad a statement, I can only say that if Hyundai (a company no one would accuse of lacking ambition) hasn't brought their excellent diesel engines over, I'm sure there's a very good reason.

Reasoned response there Force.  It would be interesting to see the differences in cost/benefit analysis for diesel powertrains between the various manufactureres.  Hyundai has obviously decided that the cost/benefit ratio of selling diesel vehicles in NA is NOT in their favour - and I agree, the risk likely isn't worth it for them (big push on DI and turbo gas engines already - do they really want to dilute that message by marketing diesel as well?)  OTOH, VW has made a great business case for selling their diesels - but they have a long history of selling diesels, and good brand equity with it (i.e., diesel fans know VW, and VW fans know diesel). 

So what made Mazda conclude that diesel is a viable option for the Mazda6, but most other midsize players don't agree?  In Mazda's case, it's not that they don't have excellent gas powertrains (new SkyActive 2.5L should be fantastic).  So is their diesel engine that good that it will drive extra Mazda6 sales?  Or they figure they're already something of a niche player in the segment, might as well embrace the "different" and go for a hail Mary? Or just a marketing gimmick? (probably way too much capital risk for that though).

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #103 on: December 05, 2012, 06:59:12 pm »
Preface: the following is my view as an enthusiast, not as a company rep. I can certainly appreciate your counterpoint - it is indeed a bit of a circular reference, in my humble opinion. The element missing in this discussion so far, however, is price. Diesel is a more expensive technology not only because of the cost to certify it here in North America, but also because of the technologies and components required to do so. Advanced particulate traps, urea injection, etc. - all these add cost. Higher cost influences take rate a great deal, especially in price-sensitive segments (which covers many of the categories we play in).

I'm not the person making these decisions, nor am I privy to the detailed discussions themselves, but I'm sure some very smart people have performed exhaustive calculations on the viability of diesel, especially in light of ever-increasing fleet fuel economy requirements. Without intending to conclude with too broad a statement, I can only say that if Hyundai (a company no one would accuse of lacking ambition) hasn't brought their excellent diesel engines over, I'm sure there's a very good reason.

No, no, no. The ONLY reason companies don't bring their diesels over is due to a conspiracy lead by the Stonecutters, in conjunction with the Rand corporation, saucer people and under the supervision of the reverse vampires.   :rofl2:
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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #104 on: December 05, 2012, 07:09:37 pm »
Every new car thread ends up as a diesel thread.

Meanwhile I spent some time looking up info on the Santa Fe and have decided that it is another very sharp looking product from Hyundai. Well featured, the right size and price...plus it looks just fine in this class. I bet it's a winner.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #105 on: December 05, 2012, 07:12:02 pm »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

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Offline Patrick_D1

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #106 on: December 05, 2012, 08:22:55 pm »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

It defaults into automatic mode, but it can be locked into 50/50 mode via a button on the dash for low-speed traction. The lock automatically disengages above 40 km/h and re-engages when you drop back below that speed.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #107 on: December 05, 2012, 09:07:50 pm »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

It defaults into automatic mode, but it can be locked into 50/50 mode via a button on the dash for low-speed traction. The lock automatically disengages above 40 km/h and re-engages when you drop back below that speed.

Thats cool, good for deep snow.

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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Re: Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #108 on: December 06, 2012, 02:02:37 pm »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

It defaults into automatic mode, but it can be locked into 50/50 mode via a button on the dash for low-speed traction. The lock automatically disengages above 40 km/h and re-engages when you drop back below that speed.

Thats cool, good for deep snow.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Absolutely. Our Sportage has the same 50/50 lock under 50kph (I think it's 50kph, but it might be 40kph, not sure) and it works incredibly well when there's a ton of snow on the roads, or going up a hill that's completely frozen up. I'm not sure I'd buy a slip n' grip AWD system that didn't have this lock feature, to be honest.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #109 on: December 07, 2012, 09:42:20 am »
Preface: the following is my view as an enthusiast, not as a company rep. I can certainly appreciate your counterpoint - it is indeed a bit of a circular reference, in my humble opinion. The element missing in this discussion so far, however, is price. Diesel is a more expensive technology not only because of the cost to certify it here in North America, but also because of the technologies and components required to do so. Advanced particulate traps, urea injection, etc. - all these add cost. Higher cost influences take rate a great deal, especially in price-sensitive segments (which covers many of the categories we play in).

I'm not the person making these decisions, nor am I privy to the detailed discussions themselves, but I'm sure some very smart people have performed exhaustive calculations on the viability of diesel, especially in light of ever-increasing fleet fuel economy requirements. Without intending to conclude with too broad a statement, I can only say that if Hyundai (a company no one would accuse of lacking ambition) hasn't brought their excellent diesel engines over, I'm sure there's a very good reason.

Well said.
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Re: Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #110 on: December 07, 2012, 09:52:47 am »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

It defaults into automatic mode, but it can be locked into 50/50 mode via a button on the dash for low-speed traction. The lock automatically disengages above 40 km/h and re-engages when you drop back below that speed.

Thats cool, good for deep snow.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Absolutely. Our Sportage has the same 50/50 lock under 50kph (I think it's 50kph, but it might be 40kph, not sure) and it works incredibly well when there's a ton of snow on the roads, or going up a hill that's completely frozen up. I'm not sure I'd buy a slip n' grip AWD system that didn't have this lock feature, to be honest.

Our new CR-V doesn't have this feature.  Our Pilot that we owned for seven years had it.  Not once did I ever use it. 
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Re: Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #111 on: December 07, 2012, 12:26:30 pm »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

It defaults into automatic mode, but it can be locked into 50/50 mode via a button on the dash for low-speed traction. The lock automatically disengages above 40 km/h and re-engages when you drop back below that speed.

Thats cool, good for deep snow.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Absolutely. Our Sportage has the same 50/50 lock under 50kph (I think it's 50kph, but it might be 40kph, not sure) and it works incredibly well when there's a ton of snow on the roads, or going up a hill that's completely frozen up. I'm not sure I'd buy a slip n' grip AWD system that didn't have this lock feature, to be honest.

Our new CR-V doesn't have this feature.  Our Pilot that we owned for seven years had it.  Not once did I ever use it.

I went wheeling once with a pair of Honda Ridgelines, only way they were modified was a tiny bit of lift and some aggressive all season. I was very pleasantly surprised to see how well that VDC lock feature worked and how well they could follow us Jeep guys into places that I did not think they were going to make......the fact that they were willing to beat the crap out of their new SUV.....truck....srucks, truvs, whatever they were impressed me a lot. I think if I was going to get a smaller SUV, the lock feature would be mandatory.

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Re: Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #112 on: December 07, 2012, 01:40:22 pm »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

It defaults into automatic mode, but it can be locked into 50/50 mode via a button on the dash for low-speed traction. The lock automatically disengages above 40 km/h and re-engages when you drop back below that speed.

Thats cool, good for deep snow.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Absolutely. Our Sportage has the same 50/50 lock under 50kph (I think it's 50kph, but it might be 40kph, not sure) and it works incredibly well when there's a ton of snow on the roads, or going up a hill that's completely frozen up. I'm not sure I'd buy a slip n' grip AWD system that didn't have this lock feature, to be honest.

Our new CR-V doesn't have this feature.  Our Pilot that we owned for seven years had it.  Not once did I ever use it.

I went wheeling once with a pair of Honda Ridgelines, only way they were modified was a tiny bit of lift and some aggressive all season. I was very pleasantly surprised to see how well that VDC lock feature worked and how well they could follow us Jeep guys into places that I did not think they were going to make......the fact that they were willing to beat the crap out of their new SUV.....truck....srucks, truvs, whatever they were impressed me a lot. I think if I was going to get a smaller SUV, the lock feature would be mandatory.

I've used VDC lock on the Ridgeline a number of times...mostly along muddy or snow covered farm fields and it does wok surprisingly well. I wouldn't challenge any Jeep Wranglers but I can keep up pretty well with regular 4x4 half tons.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #113 on: December 07, 2012, 01:43:14 pm »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

It defaults into automatic mode, but it can be locked into 50/50 mode via a button on the dash for low-speed traction. The lock automatically disengages above 40 km/h and re-engages when you drop back below that speed.

Thats cool, good for deep snow.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Absolutely. Our Sportage has the same 50/50 lock under 50kph (I think it's 50kph, but it might be 40kph, not sure) and it works incredibly well when there's a ton of snow on the roads, or going up a hill that's completely frozen up. I'm not sure I'd buy a slip n' grip AWD system that didn't have this lock feature, to be honest.

Our new CR-V doesn't have this feature.  Our Pilot that we owned for seven years had it.  Not once did I ever use it.

I went wheeling once with a pair of Honda Ridgelines, only way they were modified was a tiny bit of lift and some aggressive all season. I was very pleasantly surprised to see how well that VDC lock feature worked and how well they could follow us Jeep guys into places that I did not think they were going to make......the fact that they were willing to beat the crap out of their new SUV.....truck....srucks, truvs, whatever they were impressed me a lot. I think if I was going to get a smaller SUV, the lock feature would be mandatory.

I've used VDC lock on the Ridgeline a number of times...mostly along muddy or snow covered farm fields and it does wok surprisingly well. I wouldn't challenge any Jeep Wranglers but I can keep up pretty well with regular 4x4 half tons.

Can you shut off the traction control on yours?? As far as I remember that was their only complaint, the T/C would cut in when they could use wheelspin to get out of certain places.

Northernridge

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Re: Re: Day-by-Day Review: 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport; Day 1
« Reply #114 on: December 09, 2012, 06:42:45 pm »
So does the santa fe have awd that you can lock or is it all automatic?

Sent from my Galaxy S3

It defaults into automatic mode, but it can be locked into 50/50 mode via a button on the dash for low-speed traction. The lock automatically disengages above 40 km/h and re-engages when you drop back below that speed.

Thats cool, good for deep snow.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Absolutely. Our Sportage has the same 50/50 lock under 50kph (I think it's 50kph, but it might be 40kph, not sure) and it works incredibly well when there's a ton of snow on the roads, or going up a hill that's completely frozen up. I'm not sure I'd buy a slip n' grip AWD system that didn't have this lock feature, to be honest.

Our new CR-V doesn't have this feature.  Our Pilot that we owned for seven years had it.  Not once did I ever use it.

I went wheeling once with a pair of Honda Ridgelines, only way they were modified was a tiny bit of lift and some aggressive all season. I was very pleasantly surprised to see how well that VDC lock feature worked and how well they could follow us Jeep guys into places that I did not think they were going to make......the fact that they were willing to beat the crap out of their new SUV.....truck....srucks, truvs, whatever they were impressed me a lot. I think if I was going to get a smaller SUV, the lock feature would be mandatory.

I've used VDC lock on the Ridgeline a number of times...mostly along muddy or snow covered farm fields and it does wok surprisingly well. I wouldn't challenge any Jeep Wranglers but I can keep up pretty well with regular 4x4 half tons.

Can you shut off the traction control on yours?? As far as I remember that was their only complaint, the T/C would cut in when they could use wheelspin to get out of certain places.

Hmmm. Yes, there is a button bottom left beside the headlight switch to shut off T/C. I don't recall it cutting back in by itself. I think it is in all models over all years. I'll check the manual to confirm.

For clarity Honda calls the locking diff Variable Torque Management 4-wheel system or VTM-4. The traction control is called Vehicle Stability Assist or VSA.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 06:49:44 pm by Northernridge »