Author Topic: First Drive: 2013 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid (Read 13769 times)

Autos_Editor · « **on:** November 06, 2012, 06:06:59 am »

Paul Williams says the entertaining Jetta Hybrid should easily carve itself a presence in the growing hybrid market.

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hemusbull · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2012, 08:24:43 am »

German car with extra more electrical/electronic equipment on board? No, thanks! It's the best recipe for disaster. Even Touareg didn't make it they try now different abbreviation of a people carrier in highest price brackets...

nlm · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2012, 08:53:53 am »

So what's the deal with no diesel-electric hybrid? I thought for sure VW would've been the first to introduce this combo for a passenger vehicle. Wouldn't that be the best of fuel economy worlds or am I missing something here?

OliverD · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2012, 09:08:33 am »

Quote from: hemusbull on November 06, 2012, 08:24:43 am

Even Touareg didn't make it they try now different abbreviation of a people carrier in highest price brackets...

What language is this?

redman · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2012, 09:08:42 am »

Quote from: nlm on November 06, 2012, 08:53:53 am

So what's the deal with no diesel-electric hybrid? I thought for sure VW would've been the first to introduce this combo for a passenger vehicle. Wouldn't that be the best of fuel economy worlds or am I missing something here?

The Peugeot 508 HYbrid4 is a diesel-electric hybrid. I do recall VW testing the combo in a Touareg but it has yet to make production.
I've heard a few weak arguments for not having a diesel-electric car but find that they are without merit.
Either way, I'm sure the price would negate any possible saving, as with most hybrids except maybe the Prius C.
Mazda's i-ELOOP system of rechargeable capacitors seem intriguing if the costs are kept low. I-ELOOP powers the vehicle's electric components by the capacitor and the battery, thereby removing the need for the engine to generate electricity through the alternator by burning extra fuel.
More power to the wheels & claimed 10% fuel savings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBYPscSNZe4

http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/env/engine/i-eloop.html

whaddaiknow · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2012, 09:38:16 am »

Quote from: nlm on November 06, 2012, 08:53:53 am

So what's the deal with no diesel-electric hybrid? I thought for sure VW would've been the first to introduce this combo for a passenger vehicle. Wouldn't that be the best of fuel economy worlds or am I missing something here?

When I started reading, I really thought it was going to be the hybrid diesel powerplant.
But I have to agree with previous posters. Too much trouble from too much complexity coming from a German manufacturer with less than stellar reputation for reliability. Gas turbo engine paired with hybrid components for mid $30k in a compact car? No thanks.

jaari · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2012, 09:42:03 am »

Hmmm VW for the most part cannot make a car with proper electrics, now they have added more complexity with the hybrid drive train.
No thanks VW, btw it should be a diesel hybrid.

tpl · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2012, 09:59:26 am »

A diesel hybrid would require VW to certify yet another engine for NA, probably the 1.6 diesel. They most likely figured that certifying the 1.4 TSFI would overall give them more choices in NA.

And...diesels don't have ignition systems but they still have all the other stuff plus whatever it takes to control the diesel exhaust, particulate filters and/or urea injection. Possible more electrical stuff that you all seem to hate so much.

Rupert · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2012, 10:19:49 am »

Why make the tachometer easier to read and just as large as the speedo...'on an automatic car'. Like you need to know the RPM. A view of the rear seats folded would have been informative since it might provide a nice horizontal ledge that would be flatter than a sloping soft seat back.

tpl · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2012, 10:46:36 am »

Quote from: Rupert on November 06, 2012, 10:19:49 am

Why make the tachometer easier to read and just as large as the speedo...'on an automatic car'. Like you need to know the RPM. A view of the rear seats folded would have been informative since it might provide a nice horizontal ledge that would be flatter than a sloping soft seat back.

technically the DSG is not an automatic.

hemusbull · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2012, 10:54:45 am »

What language is this?
Thye abbreviation here is VW from German word Volkswagen. If you open Wikipedia you'll see:
"Volkswagen means "people's car" in German (pronounced [ˈfɔlksˌvaːɡən].)" - And my understanding for their idea for people's car is affordable transportation for the masses, not vehicles priced in the top of their respective class IMO!

sirAQUAMAN64 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2012, 11:28:12 am »

Quote from: Rupert on November 06, 2012, 10:19:49 am

Why make the tachometer easier to read and just as large as the speedo...'on an automatic car'. Like you need to know the RPM. A view of the rear seats folded would have been informative since it might provide a nice horizontal ledge that would be flatter than a sloping soft seat back.

The Tach is more used as a redundant (and the most obvious) source of information for what's happening with the hybrid system - the needle swings depending on where the propulsion is coming from, and how much of it (Charge, Eco, Boost).

Shnak · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2012, 11:33:36 am »

Quote from: Rupert on November 06, 2012, 10:19:49 am

Why make the tachometer easier to read and just as large as the speedo...'on an automatic car'. Like you need to know the RPM. A view of the rear seats folded would have been informative since it might provide a nice horizontal ledge that would be flatter than a sloping soft seat back.

I wouldn't buy a car without a tachometer, no matter its transmission. Sorry, I just want to know the engine's speed. Not sure why exactly, but I want it.

nlm · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2012, 12:10:50 pm »

Quote from: Rupert on November 06, 2012, 10:19:49 am

Why make the tachometer easier to read and just as large as the speedo...'on an automatic car'. Like you need to know the RPM. A view of the rear seats folded would have been informative since it might provide a nice horizontal ledge that would be flatter than a sloping soft seat back.

Try driving by only keeping the rpms below 2000 at all times. In this way for fuel efficiency, the tach becomes very important and probably a better indicator than the other eco-indicators.

ArticSteve · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2012, 03:03:09 pm »

The Prius is about the same price, also uses the less desirable CVT automatic

"Less desirable CVT"

HOLY SH*T MAN! Get with the program!

The Toyota Hybrid system is not a CVT like all others as you implied, but a rather PST (Power Sharing Transmission). The PATENTED Toyota Power Split Device uses multiple (3) imputs which vary themselves together on a planetary gear set to create one output, one ratio, gear on gear.

Industry standard CVTs take one output and then provides variable output speeds and torque via the CVT.

Once this VW unit gets out into the real world and into stop and go urban driving for a period of time then we can discuss.

roundupready · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2012, 03:29:59 pm »

VW already has a nice diesel. I'd just get the diesel over a hybrid. Less complexity.

tpl · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2012, 03:52:11 pm »

Quote from: articsteve on November 06, 2012, 03:03:09 pm

The Prius is about the same price, also uses the less desirable CVT automatic

"Less desirable CVT"

HOLY SH*T MAN! Get with the program!

The Toyota Hybrid system is not a CVT like all others as you implied, but a rather PST (Power Sharing Transmission). The PATENTED Toyota Power Split Device uses multiple (3) imputs which vary themselves together on a planetary gear set to create one output, one ratio, gear on gear.

Industry standard CVTs take one output and then provides variable output speeds and torque via the CVT.

Once this VW unit gets out into the real world and into stop and go urban driving for a period of time then we can discuss.

I would guess that the electric motor is just connected to the input shaft of the DSG with some gearing to keep the motor in its efficient range when the engine is revving in its the usual rev band for a gas engine perhaps 800 to 6500 rpm. Perhaps there is an extra clutch for the "2km as an EV" business and to disconnect the motor ( as generator) when the battery is fully charged.

Then all that is required for the whole thing to run well and invisibly to the user is some slightly different software in the ECU and the DSG Mechatronic.

tpl · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2012, 03:52:57 pm »

Quote from: roundupready on November 06, 2012, 03:29:59 pm

VW already has a nice diesel. I'd just get the diesel over a hybrid. Less complexity.

Me too.

ArticSteve · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:00:26 pm »

I would guess that the electric motor is just connected to the input shaft of the DSG with some gearing to keep the motor in its efficient range when the engine is revving in its the usual rev band for a gas engine perhaps 800 to 6500 rpm. Perhaps there is an extra clutch for the "2km as an EV" business and to disconnect the motor ( as generator) when the battery is fully charged.

The article was very lite on the technicals. However with Hybrids, the technicals are everything. Something a buyer should educate themselves on prior to purchase.

Being a competitor I wish this car the very worst possible.

Threader · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2012, 05:04:49 pm »

I don't see why they would have needed to certify a new or smaller diesel engine for North America.

The current North American Diesel Engine is less efficient in the city and at it's most efficient on the highway. This is exactly perfect match for a Hybrid electric system that is not used on the highway but mostly used in the city.

Perhaps they needed to offset the increased weight of the added Hybrid system with a smaller engine (less weight).