Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Lexus ES 300h

[Autos_Editor]

A smooth hybrid drivetrain makes Lexus' ES a more compelling luxury sedan.

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[whaddaiknow]

A smooth hybrid drivetrain makes Lexus' ES a more compelling luxury sedan.

Read More...

This is the first generally negative review of the ES. Wow! Couldn't help but feel the negative bias through and through. From fuel economy numbers to space and comfort.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Negative bias? Wut?

It was a generally good review about a car that was never really targeted at enthusiast drivers. It has always been a fancy version of a Camry, a good long haul cruiser, with decent value and excellent reliability. I think some reviews were blowing a bit too much smoke about enthusiast pretensions with the new model.

A competitor not mentioned is the new MKZ Hybrid, which isn't out yet as far as I know.

[Northernridge]

While I think the new design is a real improvement, I remain unimpressed with the ES. I like the Avalon quite a bit...seems like better value and a more authentic car. The last ES I drove was disappointing to me...had a noisy cabin, felt thin and mostly like an 11 tenths Camry...an unconvincing luxury car. It gets even worse when I compare the ES to the GS. The very likeable GS makes the ES look like a ten thousand dollar overpriced Malibu.

Somehow I see the Avalon as the deservedly top-end Toyota flagship and the ES as a parts bin Lexus.

[whaddaiknow]

Negative bias? Wut?

It was a generally good review about a car that was never really targeted at enthusiast drivers. It has always been a fancy version of a Camry, a good long haul cruiser, with decent value and excellent reliability. I think some reviews were blowing a bit too much smoke about enthusiast pretensions with the new model.

A competitor not mentioned is the new MKZ Hybrid, which isn't out yet as far as I know.

With all due respect, the car wasn't researched well.

Chris, is that an honest mistake?

"...If anything disappoints about the new, more upscale and modern interior, it’s that there’s little tangible improvement in space, save for a bit more rear-seat legroom..."

'''...Prior to this, the ES 350 was just another entry-level luxury car with family car roots. It’s still based on the Camry..."

Are you sure it is based on the Camry? Pretty much everyone else says it's based on the new Avalon.

Negative and positive in one sentence.

Here's what Car and Driver say on the same subject:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-lexus-es350-first-drive-review
"...Front-seat passengers gain a minuscule 0.1 inch of headroom and 0.3 inch of shoulder room; increases hardly worth mentioning except to contrast the comparatively large gains made in the back seat where headroom grows by 0.7 inch, and legroom is up a whopping 4.1 inches..."

TTAC
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/06/pre-production-review-2013-lexus-es-350-es-300h/
"...Because the ES has grown inside, dishing out a whopping 40 inches of rear legroom (4 more than before, and suspiciously identical to the XTS)..."

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1207_2013_lexus_es_350_and_lexus_es_300h_first_test/
"...Two major changes dominate the ES story for 2013. First is the replacement of the previous Camry platform with the bigger Avalon's. Result: the new ES is a truly substantial car with more than four inches of added legroom in the rear seat. It's like a racquetball court back there; so huge, passengers emit giggles and "wows!" as they pile in and stretch their legs in unexpected splendor..."

4.1 inches is a bit more rear-seat legroom?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It already had tonnes of rear leg room. I'm not sure adding more will really matter unless Shaq will be a back seat occupant.

The Camry, Avalon and ES are all variants of the same platform.

[whaddaiknow]

It already had tonnes of rear leg room. I'm not sure adding more will really matter unless Shaq will be a back seat occupant.

The Camry, Avalon and ES are all variants of the same platform.

It all depends on perspective, eh? If I don't like the car, I'll say "a bit more room that SirO doesn't really care about"
At the same time, add half of that (a mere 2 inches) to the ATS, and I would take it out for a spin.
Objectively, 4 inches IS A LOT. But only if you care. I do and you don't so you don't see the review as negative, and I do.

[whaddaiknow]

The Camry, Avalon and ES are all variants of the same platform.

While technically you are correct, the distinction still exists. And again depending on which one you choose, it gives it a different spin on things. Say it's based on the Camry platform, and all of a sudden the image of a souped up Camry is created.
Say it's based on the top-dog Toyota Avalon platform, and it's a different story.

Most reviewers say that, apart from sharing the drivetrain, the rest of the car is vastly different from the Camry. And yet there will be those who will continue with the same old adage ES=Camry.

Of the Camry, Avalon, ES trio I prefer Avalon's styling and ES interior, and wouldn't consider the Camry at all as I find it unattractive both inside and out.

[dragonfly]

While I think the new design is a real improvement, I remain unimpressed with the ES. I like the Avalon quite a bit...seems like better value and a more authentic car. The last ES I drove was disappointing to me...had a noisy cabin, felt thin and mostly like an 11 tenths Camry...an unconvincing luxury car. It gets even worse when I compare the ES to the GS. The very likeable GS makes the ES look like a ten thousand dollar overpriced Malibu.

Somehow I see the Avalon as the deservedly top-end Toyota flagship and the ES as a parts bin Lexus.

Same here.. I was shocked at the new Avalon...Great looking load...Good stuff..They must have sub-contracted the design..Looks a lot like a new Sonata, perhaps better...And inside and underneath is good too...Amazing..This is a typical Toyota Blah Mobile....Thanks for a nice review..
                Jack

[dirtyjeffer]

although more money, the Infiniti M Hybrid looks to be the one to buy if you want the economy but don't want to sacrifice performance.

otherwise, i think this (or the TCH if you want to save even more coin) look to be competent luxury hybrids...and 8.1 isn't too bad...my current tank of gas is at 8.1 as the weather has been getting colder and i do admit to pushing my car a little more this past tank...so, 8.1 isn't too bad considering how much larger it is vs my car.

[rrocket]

although more money, the Infiniti M Hybrid looks to be the one to buy if you want the economy but don't want to sacrifice performance.

They compared the Lexus GS to the Infiniti M hybrid..and the Lexus GS walked away with the honors on all counts...

[Snowman]

A smooth hybrid drivetrain makes Lexus' ES a more compelling luxury sedan.

Read More...

This is the first generally negative review of the ES. Wow! Couldn't help but feel the negative bias through and through. From fuel economy numbers to space and comfort.

Not unexpected from Chris Chase. 

[rrocket]

A smooth hybrid drivetrain makes Lexus' ES a more compelling luxury sedan.

Read More...

This is the first generally negative review of the ES. Wow! Couldn't help but feel the negative bias through and through. From fuel economy numbers to space and comfort.

Not unexpected from Chris Chase. 

Wing almost sounded like he wanted to buy one of these as his daily commuter.......

[dirtyjeffer]

They compared the Lexus GS to the Infiniti M hybrid..and the Lexus GS walked away with the honors on all counts...

hmmm, i wouldn't compare a performance sedand against a hybrid performance sedan, but whatever.

watch this:

http://www.motoringtv.com/test-drive-s11562#Episode_4_-_2012_Infiniti_M35h

and keep in mind, these guys are usually pretty hard on hybrids...the other nice thing is the M35h comes fully loaded at its price...perhaps when you said GS, you meant the GS450h (not sure), and if so, when you fully equip that model, it is $10k more expensive.

[whaddaiknow]

A smooth hybrid drivetrain makes Lexus' ES a more compelling luxury sedan.

Read More...

This is the first generally negative review of the ES. Wow! Couldn't help but feel the negative bias through and through. From fuel economy numbers to space and comfort.

Not unexpected from Chris Chase. 

Wing almost sounded like he wanted to buy one of these as his daily commuter.......

And that's what raised the flag in my head. Wing even said "I want one" (the words that have now been removed from the day-by-day for some reason) and reviewed it for what it was. Then Chris takes a swing at it and says how "meh" this souped up Camry is. 

[rrocket]

They compared the Lexus GS to the Infiniti M hybrid..and the Lexus GS walked away with the honors on all counts...

hmmm, i wouldn't compare a performance sedand against a hybrid performance sedan, but whatever.

watch this:

http://www.motoringtv.com/test-drive-s11562#Episode_4_-_2012_Infiniti_M35h

and keep in mind, these guys are usually pretty hard on hybrids...the other nice thing is the M35h comes fully loaded at its price...perhaps when you said GS, you meant the GS450h (not sure), and if so, when you fully equip that model, it is $10k more expensive.

Yes, I meant the GS hybrid.

[dirtyjeffer]

Yes, I meant the GS hybrid.

the M whipped the GS' butt in acceleration (0-60 time was over 1 second better in the M)...while some might not care, this is a "performance" sedan we are talking about.

[Northernridge]

Yes, I meant the GS hybrid.

the M whipped the GS' butt in acceleration (0-60 time was over 1 second better in the M)...while some might not care, this is a "performance" sedan we are talking about.

I drove the new M37x thoroughly when I was shopping for the Berlin taxi and although it was quick it was also noisy and inelegant compared to the 3 FGCs and in my opinion the new GS. I was disappointed and surprised because I really like it and had high hopes.

[dirtyjeffer]

I drove the new M37x thoroughly when I was shopping for the Berlin taxi and although it was quick it was also noisy and inelegant compared to the 3 FGCs and in my opinion the new GS. I was disappointed and surprised because I really like it and had high hopes.

i don't know if the M hybrid would have been different though.

[rrocket]

Yes, I meant the GS hybrid.

the M whipped the GS' butt in acceleration (0-60 time was over 1 second better in the M)...while some might not care, this is a "performance" sedan we are talking about.

And they preferred the handling of the GS. Important for a performance sedan, no? And the powertrain was jerky and unrefined in the M. Performance sedan or not...I'm not interested in a sloppy powertrain.