Author Topic: Help Me Pick 2!  (Read 19912 times)

Online rrocket

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #80 on: December 11, 2014, 01:25:16 am »
I don't understand the big need for ground clearance.


I agree.  I've had snow up to the bumper on the Forester and it made it through.  I don't think ground clearance is of any concern...unless you are rock hopping small boulders.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2014, 06:30:42 am »
Since you want to buy use there may not be much choice out their
With this latest snowfall it will be hard to find a Forester  ;D 

Offline lampskin

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #82 on: December 20, 2014, 08:17:29 pm »
You are over thinking this.  Buy the one you like the most.

There's no such thing as overthinking a car purchase.  When I'm buying a toaster, I buy the one I like the most.

I don't know about most people, but 20,000 dollars dropped on a vehicle is not pocket change, especially if I'm keeping the vehicle for 10 years.

With all the recalls related to vehicles these days, poor offshore quality, and the endless options available these days, buying a car is not an impulsive decision.

I don't understand the big need for ground clearance.


I agree.  I've had snow up to the bumper on the Forester and it made it through.  I don't think ground clearance is of any concern...unless you are rock hopping small boulders.

Ground clearance is a concern where I live...Bruce County, home of the 11 foot drifts  :)  When the roads are drifted over and people are depending on you to get to work, you don't want to get stuck.  There are a lot of county roads, few plows, and horizontal snow.  I've lived here for 10 years, and driven a small car here and got stuck many times.  I've thought about what I need quite a bit....

http://london.ctvnews.ca/photo-galleries/crazy-snow-bank-in-bruce-county-1.1674021

Thanks to all who have helped me make a decision.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the Outback.   Has anyone had any transmission issues with the Hyundai Santa Fe?  Edmunds seems to have a lot of owners complaining about transmission issues.

Anyone who owns an Outback:  How is the reliability?  Is the CVT noise as annoying as people say it is?  Is the interior as cheap looking as reviews seem to indicate?  Is the 4 cylinder 2.5 engine as gutless as the reviews indicate?  Is the Boxer 6 cyl engine worth getting, or should I stick with the 4?

I really like the Limited edition, with heated seats, fogs, heated mirrors, dual zone climate control, and heated wipers.  Anyone here have the Outback Limited Edition?

Thanks again everyone for your help!  There are so many knowledgeable people on this forum!

Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #83 on: December 21, 2014, 03:52:10 pm »
Taking the Outback for a test drive will help determine whether the 4 cylinder is good enough or not.  I think it is good enough.  You may have to expand your search criteria in Autotrader to 500km, as the Outback will be hard to find.  I would not be considering the Santa Fe unless it was a new one.  The current generation is good, but will be hard pressed to get one under $20k tax in. 

Offline Noto

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #84 on: December 21, 2014, 10:03:27 pm »
Anyone who owns an Outback:  How is the reliability?  Is the CVT noise as annoying as people say it is?  Is the interior as cheap looking as reviews seem to indicate?  Is the 4 cylinder 2.5 engine as gutless as the reviews indicate?  Is the Boxer 6 cyl engine worth getting, or should I stick with the 4?

I really like the Limited edition, with heated seats, fogs, heated mirrors, dual zone climate control, and heated wipers.  Anyone here have the Outback Limited Edition?

Thanks again everyone for your help!  There are so many knowledgeable people on this forum!
The Outback will be really nice, and if you can find the H6, it'll be lovely (albeit a bit thirsty on gas, relatively speaking).

I have a 2011 Forester XT, so not direct comparison, but I agree - take 'er for a test drive and see for yourself!

Offline blotter

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #85 on: December 24, 2014, 09:07:26 am »
I'd go Outback H6 only if towing would be a need.
Otherwise, I do think the 4 would be fine. 

However, as mentioned, go test them out.   Everyone's acceptance of enough power is different. 

Offline lampskin

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #86 on: December 24, 2014, 09:56:02 pm »
I'd go Outback H6 only if towing would be a need.
Otherwise, I do think the 4 would be fine. 

However, as mentioned, go test them out.   Everyone's acceptance of enough power is different. 

H6 is really difficult to find!  There are only 2 on Autotrader...I believe they were only made from 2000 to 2003?

I don't tow all that much.  Thanks for the advice.  I'll find an Outback to test drive.

Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2014, 03:51:13 pm »
The H6 has always been available, just low volume, and Subaru owners hold on to their vehicles...

Offline sailor723

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2014, 04:38:18 pm »
Here's what I don't get about worrying over ground clearance. If the drifts are 3' deep is an extra couple of inches of clearance really going to make any difference? ???
Old Jag convertible...one itch I won't have to scratch again.

Offline lampskin

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2014, 09:36:51 pm »
Here's what I don't get about worrying over ground clearance. If the drifts are 3' deep is an extra couple of inches of clearance really going to make any difference? ???

By that logic, why wear a bulletproof vest if you're in a gunfight?  Covering part of your body won't make a difference.

Why wear a helmet when you bike?  If a car hits you it won't make a difference.

A couple of inches could make the difference between getting stuck or not.  In the summer, a couple of inches could be the difference between clearing a boulder on a road to the cabin or piercing your oil pan and having all your oil drain out.  If you only drive in the city on sunny days, you're right, it won't make a difference.

Offline Brig

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #90 on: December 29, 2014, 08:52:25 am »
In the summer, a couple of inches could be the difference between clearing a boulder on a road to the cabin or piercing your oil pan and having all your oil drain out.

What, like this stupid idiot?   ;D

http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=75886.0

Offline lampskin

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #91 on: December 29, 2014, 12:19:03 pm »
In the summer, a couple of inches could be the difference between clearing a boulder on a road to the cabin or piercing your oil pan and having all your oil drain out.

What, like this stupid idiot?   ;D

http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=75886.0

Brigitte, the Bruce trail is amazing to hike.  I live closer to the Western terminus.  Same thing though where I live.  Some fire roads around the Bruce Trail are pretty hairy.  I see now that you have a Santa Fe.  How do you like driving that?

CAA plus has saved my neck more than once as well.

Offline Brig

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #92 on: December 29, 2014, 01:01:21 pm »
Brigitte, the Bruce trail is amazing to hike.  I live closer to the Western terminus.  Same thing though where I live.  Some fire roads around the Bruce Trail are pretty hairy.  I see now that you have a Santa Fe.  How do you like driving that?

CAA plus has saved my neck more than once as well.

I like my Santa Fe quite a bit for its functionality and roominess.  If I fold down the back seats, I can stuff my entire bike into it without taking off the front wheel!  It's terrific for hauling camping gear and hikers around as well.

Fuel economy is decent on the highway.  I averaged 10L/100 km when I used to have a longer commute to work.  Handling isn't very exciting, though.  It's a great cruiser, built for comfort - although it has decent acceleration due to the V6.

FYI, it was three years old when I bought it, and I paid just under $20K (as you're looking to pay) for it at a Hyundai dealership.  It had very low mileage (36,000 km) and I got the balance of the factory warranty.

Offline lampskin

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Test Drives
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2015, 09:42:27 pm »
Just thought I would update y'all on the ride situation.

Last weekend, we went to test drive some vehicles.

We were up in Guelph. 

We tested: 
2011 Outback 2.5i
2012 Outback 3.6R
2010 Hyundai Santa Fe V6
2011 Toyota Highlander

We had to really look for snow for my test.  Guelph does a great job clearing the snow off the roadways.

We drove up to the Guelph University Arboretum and found some roads in the park with a lot of snow.

Also found some side streets in a new development near U Guelph not maintained by the city ;)

The Santa Fe was capable, especially in 4WHL drive "lock" mode, which doesn't really lock, but just diverts maximum amount of torque to rear wheels.  The tester i got was quite beat up, the suspension sounded really bad, and there were quite a few dents and scratches.  I think it did a great job handling the snow though.  The ride position was much higher than the Outback, with good visibility, and nice interior.  The only disconcerting feature of the AWD was the moment of uncertainty before the all wheel drive kicked in.   The Hyundai AWD is electronically actuated, which leads to a bit of a delay until the computer decides to throw the hammer down.  During this time, I noticed quite a bit of torque steer.  Once the AWD kicked in, everything was ok though.

The Outback instilled me with wayyy more confidence driving in the snow.  I let my wife drive too, and she liked it because of the lower driving position, and more carlike handling.  One thing I also like about the Outback is the full time mechanically actuated symmetrical AWD.  The AWD system is tried and trusted, and has been in cars for many years and proven.  I like the fact that the Outback relies more on mechanical torque conversion rather than electronic actuators.  The 2.5 I drove didn't have snow tires, but the 3.6 handled beautifully, even in deep snow.  The 3.6 may be a little more power than we need, and the larger engine really hurts the fuel economy(25 mpg vs 29 mpg on the highway).

The 30 mpg threshold is the magic number above which I may as well buy a Ridgeline, Tacoma, or Frontier.  Therefore, the 3.6R may be out of the running.  I am not buying this vehicle for performance or towing capacity.  I just want a capable AWD vehicle that my wife can drive to work.

What I did find though, is that the Santa Fe is ubiquitous.  I can't drive a block without seeing one around here.  This of course, means that it may be easier to find deals.   Not many Outbacks out there, and they do command a slight premium for the AWD.

I have a few upcoming test drives in the next few weeks.  I've promised my wife a new ride by end of Feb, so we'll see!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 09:45:03 pm by lampskin »

Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2015, 10:16:06 pm »
Nice update lampskin.  Glad you went out and did some good test drives.  No report on the Highlander though?

I would pay the premium with the Subaru over the Hyundai.  Great engineering, solid reliability, good resale value.  You may just have to travel a bit to find one.  The Forester drives much the same.  So if you can't find an Outback, Forester could fit the bill...

Offline redman

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #95 on: February 04, 2015, 09:58:36 am »
I agree with you in regards to the Outback 2.5 vs 3.6 fuel economy. The 2.5 after 2010 auto is a CVT while the CVT was not introduced in the 3.6 until this year.
The addition of the CVT now makes the 3.6 more compelling and would have swayed my buying decision regarding the recent Legacy.
It all comes down to type of driving also. If you do mostly highway than the larger engine fuel consumption is marginal in real world usage but significant if mostly city stop and go driving conditions.
Best of luck in your purchasing adventures. Seems that you're on the right track.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 09:02:25 am by redman »
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Offline lampskin

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Decision Made
« Reply #96 on: March 04, 2015, 10:23:50 pm »
Well, since my last update, I've been checking out used Outbacks.  As someone mentioned previously, 2010-2012 Outbacks are few and far between.  Most of them are Quebec vehicles.  90% of the Outbacks in Ontario are in Ottawa.  Anyways, we've been keeping an eye on Autotrader and kijiji. 

Autotrader has changed quite a bit since I was last looking for vehicles(about 7 years ago).  Now it seems, the majority of listings are factory dealers and used car lots, rather than private sales. 

Anyways, not too many Subarus around here.  Owen Sound Subaru(the closest dealership to me) had one overpriced 3.6R.  There were quite a few in the GTA, but my reasoning was that I would gladly pay a couple thousand dollar premium for not going to the GTA(no offense to the city).  It's quite a drive, plus I hate traffic and dealing with rude salesmen.

Luckily my wife saw 5 Outbacks at Stratford Subaru, all within our price range.  We jumped in the car last weekend and drove down to check them out.

After spending 5 hours at the dealership kicking the proverbial tires and negotiating, we found that there was little negotiating room on 2 of them and one was the Limited edition, and was marked up because of the extra features.  I didn't really feel like paying for the Limited features, since the only real feature I really wanted were the heated seats. 

The third Subaru that was there was a baby blue, and was in good shape, but the wife hated that color :(.

The last Subaru was Crystal Black, Premium, with 104,000 km.  It was listed at 20,000, and I negotiated down to 17,500(which is pretty much the average price of a 2011 with 100,000 km on the clock).  I don't think I got an amazing deal, but I didn't feel like waiting any longer to buy.  The price was decent, the vehicle was in great shape mechanically, and body was good, with just a few minor dings to add character. 

I had the dealership throw on a set of Hankook Ipikes to handle the Bruce County powder, and they threw in a vehicle undercoating, trunk liner and winter mats for free.

In all, our purchasing experience at Stratford Subaru was excellent, and our sales rep, Craig, was friendly, respectful, extremely patient with us, very kind, and polite throughout the whole sales process.  In the end, my wife and I both walked away happy with a great vehicle!  I would recommend Craig to anyone looking for a used Subaru.  They have lots of Outbacks and Foresters on the lot.

I'm happy we finally got something after all that time looking.  We drove down to Stratford today to pick it up.  On the way back, the weather was pretty blowy, and the wife was happy for the Hankooks and heated seats!

Thank you all for helping me to make up my mind, and it's such a relief to not have to think about it any more.

Jeff

Online rrocket

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #97 on: March 04, 2015, 10:26:19 pm »
Pics?

Offline 2JDM

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #98 on: March 04, 2015, 10:45:13 pm »
Congrats!

Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Help Me Pick 2!
« Reply #99 on: March 05, 2015, 10:00:25 am »
Congrats Jeff, nice extras you got there.  Not easy to get those extras especially after negotiating the price.  Make sure to post some pictures in the Show N Shine section.  I shouldn't talk though, as I haven't done it yet either.  What can I say, I hate the winter, and it's been a cold one! 

Looking forward to the test drive on the next camping trip!  ;D