Topic: Test Drive: 2016 Hyundai Veloster Rally Edition

[dirtyjeffer]

Why is premium fuel that big of a deal.....especially on a turbocharged engine?? Your average numpty consumer doesn't understand the benefits, but if you are a car guy/gal, then premium should be a no brainer on anything pressurized.

as Solstice mentioned, at about $8/fill, it can add up.

my point is more about the requirement of it...most of the competition either require premium or recommend premium...this engine was designed specifically to run on regular gas...there is nothing "no brainer" about it...it isn't needed.

I've done this math a hundred times.  Let's do it again.

Assume gas is $1.00/L, with premium being $1.15/L.  Assume a vehicle is doing 10L/100km and you drive 20000km/year.  So that means 2000L/year.  So it costs you $2000 on regular, and $2300 on premium.  $300 more per year!  Stop drinking Tim Horton's coffee everyday and you'll more than make up for the cost difference.

I bet if one was to throw a Veloster turbo on the dyno, it would show quite a difference in power on regular vs premium.  Sure, it can run on regular, but the ECU is just going to go on the safer maps (retard ignition timing, run less boost, add more fuel for a richer mixture) once it detects knock.

^^This!!

look, i am very well aware of how this whole thing works...however, in the case of this engine, that doesn't happen...the engine is set up and tuned to perform as is on regular fuel...nothing is "dialled back" to allow it to run on regular...it runs as intended on regular fuel...what you are describing is what happens when you put regular fuel in an engine that is designed to run on premium fuel (or, in some cases, will detune itself to allow operation on regular)...none of that applies with this engine.

It's probably just marketing. Yes, the engine produces its rated power on regular, and yes, they've done all the durability testing and whatnot on regular, but I'm sure if you run premium in it you would see a difference on the dyno.

I bet Hyundai simply figured they'd sell more cars by advertising that "it runs on regular" vs. "it makes 10 more horsepower."

as i've said, you won't hurt the engine putting premium in it...my point was simply that the article implied that premium was required, when it isn't...it isn't even recommended...IOW, fill it with a quality regular grade gas.

[Ex-airbalancer]

If you are not tracking the car what difference will an extra 10 hp make in normal driving unless one of those assholes weaving in and out lanes on the 401 

[mixmanmash]

http://www.velosterturbo.org/forum/veloster-turbo-discussions/4515-recent-dyno-data-new-veloster-turbo-stock-different-fuels.html

I'll just leave that here.

[mixmanmash]

Days like today I wished we owned a dyno.

Just find a shop with one.  Probably $100-$150 to do 3 runs.

[Fobroader]

http://www.velosterturbo.org/forum/veloster-turbo-discussions/4515-recent-dyno-data-new-veloster-turbo-stock-different-fuels.html

I'll just leave that here.

5th Gear did the same test with a WRX....about 15-20hp

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[Nuttygent]

  After running 18 months with same engine, first 10 used regular fuel and consumed 8.4 to 9.2L/100 km. Last 8 months with premium, 7.1 to 8.4L/100km all at steady 130 km/hr on hwy 401. The engine is more efficient on premium.

[dirtyjeffer]

  After running 18 months with same engine, first 10 used regular fuel and consumed 8.4 to 9.2L/100 km. Last 8 months with premium, 7.1 to 8.4L/100km all at steady 130 km/hr on hwy 401. The engine is more efficient on premium.

all engines are...i'm not debating the benefits of premium fuel...as i've stated since the beginning, my point was solely about the way it was mentioned in the article...premium fuel is not required, nor recommended...you can certainly use it, and reap the rewards from it if you choose...but it is perfectly happy running on regular as well.

[tooscoops]

ok... i may need to continue the derailment here! 

I'll start by saying, good, informative and entertaining article sabrina... nice to hear from people who have extensive experience with the models in some way.

ok... fuel... IF the car is truly meant to run on regular... there should be no significant benefit to using higher octane, should there? wouldn't the car have detonation, or if it corrects itself, run the same power output? i'm no wizard with this stuff, so excuse my ignorance... but IF i'm not all wrong, they have made it so that 87 isn't immediately harmful to the car, but you are better off using high test for the long run at a short term loss cost wise.

...it's like washing your car with dish detergent... yep.. does the job with no immediate ill effects. but over time, not so good... and solstice, driving more kms hurts the wallet now more, but when you have it in the shop more, it will balance out if not be cheaper to opt for high test i would think...

[safristi]

KNOCK KNOCK   whose there...buncha cheap bastards knockin' their heads together ..enjoying a premium beer with a superior octane Brandy chaser.....notable performance difference...

[mixmanmash]

ok... i may need to continue the derailment here! 

I'll start by saying, good, informative and entertaining article sabrina... nice to hear from people who have extensive experience with the models in some way.

ok... fuel... IF the car is truly meant to run on regular... there should be no significant benefit to using higher octane, should there? wouldn't the car have detonation, or if it corrects itself, run the same power output? i'm no wizard with this stuff, so excuse my ignorance... but IF i'm not all wrong, they have made it so that 87 isn't immediately harmful to the car, but you are better off using high test for the long run at a short term loss cost wise.

...it's like washing your car with dish detergent... yep.. does the job with no immediate ill effects. but over time, not so good... and solstice, driving more kms hurts the wallet now more, but when you have it in the shop more, it will balance out if not be cheaper to opt for high test i would think...

Washing your car with dish soap strips the wax off.  And no, if the ECU compensates to avoid detonation, the result is less power.  Retarding ignition timing, adding more fuel to avoid detonation all results in less power and sometimes, worse fuel economy depending on how you drive.

[dirtyjeffer]

ok... i may need to continue the derailment here! 

I'll start by saying, good, informative and entertaining article sabrina... nice to hear from people who have extensive experience with the models in some way.

ok... fuel... IF the car is truly meant to run on regular... there should be no significant benefit to using higher octane, should there? wouldn't the car have detonation, or if it corrects itself, run the same power output? i'm no wizard with this stuff, so excuse my ignorance... but IF i'm not all wrong, they have made it so that 87 isn't immediately harmful to the car, but you are better off using high test for the long run at a short term loss cost wise.

...it's like washing your car with dish detergent... yep.. does the job with no immediate ill effects. but over time, not so good... and solstice, driving more kms hurts the wallet now more, but when you have it in the shop more, it will balance out if not be cheaper to opt for high test i would think...

Washing your car with dish soap strips the wax off.  And no, if the ECU compensates to avoid detonation, the result is less power.  Retarding ignition timing, adding more fuel to avoid detonation all results in less power and sometimes, worse fuel economy depending on how you drive.

yes, but in this case, that isn't happening...the engine was designed to work as intended on regular grade fuel...yes, there are benefits of using premium, and that was never up for debate...the use of a quality regular grade fuel will not harm or ruin the performance of the vehicle...the use of a quality premium grade fuel will not harm, nor ruin the performance of the vehicle (and in some ways may actually improve it)...that was never up for debate and was never part of the argument...what is, and always was, was the implication that premium is what was needed here, and it isn't.

[mixmanmash]

ok... i may need to continue the derailment here! 

I'll start by saying, good, informative and entertaining article sabrina... nice to hear from people who have extensive experience with the models in some way.

ok... fuel... IF the car is truly meant to run on regular... there should be no significant benefit to using higher octane, should there? wouldn't the car have detonation, or if it corrects itself, run the same power output? i'm no wizard with this stuff, so excuse my ignorance... but IF i'm not all wrong, they have made it so that 87 isn't immediately harmful to the car, but you are better off using high test for the long run at a short term loss cost wise.

...it's like washing your car with dish detergent... yep.. does the job with no immediate ill effects. but over time, not so good... and solstice, driving more kms hurts the wallet now more, but when you have it in the shop more, it will balance out if not be cheaper to opt for high test i would think...

Washing your car with dish soap strips the wax off.  And no, if the ECU compensates to avoid detonation, the result is less power.  Retarding ignition timing, adding more fuel to avoid detonation all results in less power and sometimes, worse fuel economy depending on how you drive.

yes, but in this case, that isn't happening...the engine was designed to work as intended on regular grade fuel...yes, there are benefits of using premium, and that was never up for debate...the use of a quality regular grade fuel will not harm or ruin the performance of the vehicle...the use of a quality premium grade fuel will not harm, nor ruin the performance of the vehicle (and in some ways may actually improve it)...that was never up for debate and was never part of the argument...what is, and always was, was the implication that premium is what was needed here, and it isn't.

Did you read the link I posted?  The performance was obviously better on premium....

Of course, it can run on regular and could for its entire life.  But the performance is notably better on premium.

At the end of the day, you can believe what you want, but the empirical evidence is clearly showing something a little different.

[dirtyjeffer]

if you put premium in pretty much every modern car, you'll improve performance...that wasn't up for debate...this vehicle will perform as designed with regular gas...if you want extra performance, then you can use the premium fuel if you want.

you're arguing a point i haven't been making.

[tortoise]

if you put premium in pretty much every modern car with a turbo you'll improve performance.

Fixed it for you.

[mixmanmash]

if you put premium in pretty much every modern car with a turbo you'll improve performance.

Fixed it for you.

Correct.

[dirtyjeffer]

if you put premium in pretty much every modern car with a turbo you'll improve performance.

Fixed it for you.

no, it works on non-turbo cars too...up until the Costco installed a gas station here, my Rio5 used V-Power for the better part of a year...ran better than other station's Regular gas and the mileage was better...for some reason, Costco Regular works just great, although the V-power still had better mileage.

[Ace]

What's with all the all the dark photos? Kinda hard to see the lines of the car. Is this an artsy "film noir" interpretation?

[Solstice2006]

ok... i may need to continue the derailment here! 

I'll start by saying, good, informative and entertaining article sabrina... nice to hear from people who have extensive experience with the models in some way.

ok... fuel... IF the car is truly meant to run on regular... there should be no significant benefit to using higher octane, should there? wouldn't the car have detonation, or if it corrects itself, run the same power output? i'm no wizard with this stuff, so excuse my ignorance... but IF i'm not all wrong, they have made it so that 87 isn't immediately harmful to the car, but you are better off using high test for the long run at a short term loss cost wise.

...it's like washing your car with dish detergent... yep.. does the job with no immediate ill effects. but over time, not so good... and solstice, driving more kms hurts the wallet now more, but when you have it in the shop more, it will balance out if not be cheaper to opt for high test i would think...

Oh I agree that if you don't use the premium (in a car that called for, to keep things simple), then your going to pay for it during service.  My point was, a VW Golf 1.8T uses premium, it's a consideration when cross shopping with a Mazda3 Sport.  Obviously the Mazda is going to be much cheaper in gas.  It's not the posted $3 a tank, its closer to $9 a tank, which would affect my decision.

[HeliDriver]

^^ VW says you only need to use 87 in the 1.8T.

[Solstice2006]

^^ VW says you only need to use 87 in the 1.8T.

Damn! Trying to cause more problems eh! :-)