Topic: First Drive: 2013 Cadillac ATS

[Autos_Editor]

Jonathan Yarkony calls the Cadillac ATS a "small luxury car or a sport sedan of the highest order."

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[redman]

I understand G.M. marketing in order to expand their market beyond "an old man's car". I just don't know if Cadillac was the right division to take on that on. I for one still think of caddy as a long comfortable car with fins.

[nlm]

Clearly the author was smittin with the ATS and this is the first real positive review I had read of a GM car, other than the ZL1, in a while. I would be interested in reading other opinions of the ATS as well.

The author never completed the 2.0T vs 3.6 fuel consumption comparison: the former requires premium and the latter can run on regular right?

Can the manual transmission be kept when ordering AWD in the 2.0T?

Also it does not appear that the magneto-suspension is available with AWD; is this b/c there would likely be little take-up on such a combo or is there an engineering incompatibility between the two?

[redman]

So, you'd prefer them to omit the non-geriatric market for luxury vehicles because you can't picture a Cadillac for young people? There's going to be a whole generation upcoming that never saw that old aspect of Cadillac.

What would you propose they had done and what brand would you have created or altered to market luxury cars to the masses?

Understandable regarding the "upcoming generation" but today's sales are going to be difficult. Most young people have little money to spend on a car like this. Sales are all about now and although I applaud G.M.'s attempt I believe that the people with the money the older demographic (over 40) will be a hard sell. I don't think G.M. has a proper category for this market maybe a revised version of Cadillac like "Cadillac-S" or similar would come closest. Maybe even having Corvette as a brand instead of just a singular model, similar to what Toyota did with the Prius. 

[tpl]

"Corvette as a brand"     I agree. I thought of that when I read your 8:30 post.  I am not convinced it would work unless the "Corvette Coupé"  and "Corvette Sedan"  cars consisted of only the more powerful versions of the ATS and CTS  ( with no wagons!).  Obviously the "V" cars would fit  but I don't think the base ATS and CTS would without a very careful advertising campaign   which imho  might involve a version of the turbo Sonic as well... after all, if Audi can do luxury hot hatches...

[Spheric]

I wonder how the manual transmission feels in a car like this. Domestics haven't exactly had a stellar record in making great stick shift transmissions.

My first thought after seeing this review would be to cross-shop the ATS with another GM stablemate - the Buick Regal Turbo, and then maybe a 3 series.

[PRNDL0L]

In that one interior photo I had to look twice, look at all those glossy trim bits!  Almost too many to take seriously.

[Mike]

In that one interior photo I had to look twice, look at all those glossy trim bits!  Almost too many to take seriously.

'
The Cadillac looks fantastic on the outside, and drives fantastically.   But those shiny interior bits are too much for me.

[Rupert]

It's a nice car and if it were a Mercedes it would also be and maybe that could be a problem since it seems that Mercedes have sharpened their pencils a bit. Side elevations are sharp with little overhang. I don't move in the circles that can pay 43 to 73 big one's for car and wonder if these circles dally more with BMWs and such. A tough hill to climb. I think that the 'geriatric' crowd who require a days total steel mill production...to go shopping in; have largely passed through the the market already and tail fins were in the ground up mix for better vehicles a while back. This is a far better use of materials I think. What's in a name anyway. A rose by any other...

[chrischasescars]

The 1980s called. They want their gauge cluster back.

[whaddaiknow]

I had a hard time finishing reading the article. Total unconditional relentless unreserved praise for a new product that is only fighting for its spot at the feeder. NO quibbles or criticism? That smells.

That interior pic alone won't make me want to go to the GM showroom. And I think I AM the target market for it. Those shiny piano black interior bits are ok in a mainstream Sonata but not the upscale ATS competing with the big German 3.

The guage cluster is unappealing at best.

It's ok to focus on the last 10/10th but how is it to live with day in and day out?

BMW's 2.0T has all its torque available as low as 1,250RPM against 1,700RPM in the ATS which will be felt especially in daily short shifting traffic conditions. So even if they are the same at 9/10th, BMW strikes me as a nicer overall package with a more tasteful interior, more flexible engine and better value with included maintenance for 4 years.

Yesterday, I read an article about the 2013 Avalon Hybrid and the author mentioned that Toyota managed to get rid of the low RPM clatter in their DI engine, and specifically compared it to the ATS 2.0T engine whose clatter has no place in a premium car.

Also, what many on this forum suggested that GM should do - offer free maintenance as a value proposition and assurance of its quality - Toyota has quietly introduced in the US. No wonder GM lags behind (always seems to be a step behind) because they get outsmarted and outmarketed by the competition.

All this touting of the superior engineering built into the new ATS after testing the fully optioned press car? Try a model that GM says will be their best seller (without the magnetic ride and other performance enhancing features) and then compare it to the 3-series. I may be wrong but regardless of the engine choice between 320i-328i-335i (not talking about the M series), BMW offers essentially the same chassis and suspension bits so handling is virtually the same. GM offers a stripped ATS at a competitive price point but then it's nothing like what is being praised in the article.

Good car, no doubt, and it's good to see someone giving the German 3 a run for their money. But still GM stopped short making ME want to go check it out. Is it THAT good though, is it REALLY better engineered than the 3-series? I guess I need more convincing.

[Ace]

Way too complicated and over engineered. I don't think 99% of potential Caddy customers give a rat's @#$ what the underneath bits are made of or how it will sound wailing at 7200 rpms. And it still reminds me of the crappy SRX I owned. Maybe putting on a Corvette badge might work, that is...if you like Corvettes.

[carcrazed]

21 variations for one vehicle are too many IMO.  Isn't this part of the reason why GM pretty much when under?  They should simplify it and keep it under 10.  BMW 3 only has 9 with THREE different engine choices (10 with the M3).

Maybe GM is reading these feedbacks and change that glossy black to matte black like Ford did.

[jyarkony]

Good car, no doubt, and it's good to see someone giving the German 3 a run for their money. But still GM stopped short making ME want to go check it out. Is it THAT good though, is it REALLY better engineered than the 3-series? I guess I need more convincing.

You don't need convincing, you need driving. Drive it. I'd be curious to hear what a BMW loyalist would think.

also, I was talking to a GM engineer, and he cautioned that all 2.0T models are pre-production, so not surprising that there might be some flaws in certain areas—i didn't drive the manual transmisssion, but Jonny Lieberman slammed it in his head-to-head with a 328i and said the cadillac lost because of that, but there is potential that it is something they can correct before 2.0Ts hit mass production.

[canuckystan]

I thought it was a very good review.  So many domestic lux reviews slam the car and always say they don't quite have that BMW "feel" without going into details.  If the car is good, the reviewer should say it and not go looking for flaws if there are few or none to be seen. 

I do have to chuckle at the GM strategy debate above - I have this feeling that GM knows something about their brand and their customers and has likely thought through all that stuff before investing a billion or so in a new line-up.  Corvette sedan?  That's hilarious - reminds of the Simpsons when Homer's brother hired him to design a car.

I personally don't buy new cars, but this looks like a sweet used deal in 5 years.

[whaddaiknow]

Good car, no doubt, and it's good to see someone giving the German 3 a run for their money. But still GM stopped short making ME want to go check it out. Is it THAT good though, is it REALLY better engineered than the 3-series? I guess I need more convincing.

You don't need convincing, you need driving. Drive it. I'd be curious to hear what a BMW loyalist would think.

also, I was talking to a GM engineer, and he cautioned that all 2.0T models are pre-production, so not surprising that there might be some flaws in certain areas—i didn't drive the manual transmisssion, but Jonny Lieberman slammed it in his head-to-head with a 328i and said the cadillac lost because of that, but there is potential that it is something they can correct before 2.0Ts hit mass production.

Those two highlited above sealed it for me.

That pole dancer may be great at what she does but how is she raising kids and taking out the garbage? From that perspective, auto journalists spend half their time in a strip bar with beer and lap dance free. Question is, how many of those dancers would you take home to meet your mother?

Interestingly, I am not a BMW loyalist. I wanted a Merc but ended up with a BMW because it was a better overall package.
The interior of the car and slow daily commute is where I spend most of my time. That ATS interior will put me off, the 2.0T is a question mark, as well as GM's reputation for quality and after sales maintenance. Given I can only drive it at 1.5/10 in the winter traffic, all in all, at the same price, 3-series with xDrive is king.

If money were no object and I spent more than 10% of my driving time on the track, I would definitely give the ATS a fair shot. Until then, reality bites.

Performance is great as a marketing tool, but value must be there too. GM may have created a great performing car but where is the competitive advantage in terms of value?

To be clear, I am not slamming the car. I am sure the engineers did their job. Now GM needs to present it to public as a great value proposition if it wants to sell it in any significant quantities. Luxury car market is much harder to penetrate than mainstream.

[whaddaiknow]

To quote some of the domestic review of this ATS - they actually mentioned the ATS had "more of a BMW feel than the BMW" and preferred the handling. The manual tranny and the 4-pot turbo let it down in the reviews.

Just what you said. If the 4-pot turbo isn't flexible enough for daily driving and the manual tranny is no good and I have to shift the poor tranny at least 500 times in a day, the rest becomes irrelevant. Annoyances seem to overshadow niceties at a rate of 10/1.

[aquadorhj]

fairpoint,

however, maybe another strategic thinking was a factor in the pricing and engineering of the ATS.

Maybe Cadillac wants to move back into the true heavyweight ring, right off the bat.

who here thinks Cadillac couldn't undercut the BMW in pricing, if they wanted to?

but they didn't.

(and i'm sure there will be heavy incentives soon, but that's not the point)

maybe they want to be toe to toe with bimmer and benz alike, perhaps to showcase that GM is still alive and kicking, and will take the crown again if they ever so desired.

these reviews are saying the driving dynamics already there.

cachet in the name is catching up, with CTS, Escalade, .....  uhmm..  and now the ATS. (i wish they would bring back the STS, though, for real.)

there's many Caddies around now, and not all of them are driven by senior citezenry.

the only thing that worries me are the sometimes-wonky and questionable durability of GM engineering.

can you imagine, cachet of Benz, driving dynamics of BMW, reliability of Lexus?    I hope GM gets there..    if not this ATS, maybe on the next one.

...oh, and i hope they source their manuals from Honda.. 

[whaddaiknow]

can you imagine, cachet of Benz, driving dynamics of BMW, reliability of Lexus?    I hope GM gets there..    if not this ATS, maybe on the next one.

...oh, and i hope they source their manuals from Honda.. 

Where do I sign? 
Until that happens, I will look elsewhere. And I'm afraid by the time it happens, it will be Avalon time for me. 

[JohnnyMac]

Personally my hope for this car isn't that it's a BMW beater but that it will prompt better products from others.  I'd love to see the upcoming mustang (with the independant rear suspension) be made into a RWD lincoln that competes in this category.  And of course I think Hyundai will be offering their next generation Genesis coupe in some kind of sedan form to compete in this category.  I think if either of these cars are made it will be great for the car people looking for a sports sedan that isn't going to break the bank.  That being said I don't think I'd ever buy an ATS as GM has lost my business with subpar products over the past 20 years.  BMW isn't much better with their reliability issues and cost of maintenance.  Lexus and Infiniti are soon going to be redoing their IS and G sedans to compete with this cars and I'm sure they'll be good products.