Topic: Test Drive: 2016 Chrysler 200S AWD

[tortoise]

Indeed.   Though to get the SH-AWD, you're starting with a base price of $40k for the TLX.   Moving up to mid to high 40s to get all these tech features. 

So it is a bit of different class.

I'm not so sure about that.

. But this car here is more than $42,000 with destination charges factored in, and that doesn’t include cooled seats, adaptive cruise control or some of the other active safety features showing up in competitive models (not to mention the missing sunroof).

That's right in-line with the TLX SH-AWD*.  And sure the Acura won't have Nav but it will have a sunroof which may be more important to some.

I'd buy the Acura in heart-beat over the 200.

*presumably at some point discounts on the 200 will widen the gap.

[Noto]

*presumably at some point discounts on the 200 will widen the gap.

^ thread won.

Look, the 200 is a nice car.  It really is.  Reliability concerns aside, the transmission and suspension (bump-steer) are worrisome and would preclude me from purchase instantly at any price.

[Fobroader]

*presumably at some point discounts on the 200 will widen the gap.

^ thread won.

Look, the 200 is a nice car.  It really is.  Reliability concerns aside, the transmission and suspension (bump-steer) are worrisome and would preclude me from purchase instantly at any price.

Whachu talkin' about Willis??

[Noto]

suspension (bump-steer) are worrisome and would preclude me from purchase instantly at any price.

Whachu talkin' about Willis??

Paging Jacob Black.  Paging Jacob Black!

Suspension and Handling

This is where the Subaru really starts to claw back points against the floaty, spongey and bump-steering 200.

You might think the lack of handling ability would translate to a more comfortable, supple ride, but it doesn’t. Where the Legacy takes potholes and bumps in its stride the 200 crashes over them with noisy, uncomfortable violence.

Should you encounter a bump or pothole mid-corner the resultant convulsion will dramatically change the 200’s trajectory.

Link

[NormT]

And too see the 200 out selling the Accord recently!

[evil_twin]

Indeed.   Though to get the SH-AWD, you're starting with a base price of $40k for the TLX.   Moving up to mid to high 40s to get all these tech features. 

So it is a bit of different class.

I'm not so sure about that.

. But this car here is more than $42,000 with destination charges factored in, and that doesn’t include cooled seats, adaptive cruise control or some of the other active safety features showing up in competitive models (not to mention the missing sunroof).

That's right in-line with the TLX SH-AWD*.  And sure the Acura won't have Nav but it will have a sunroof which may be more important to some.

I'd buy the Acura in heart-beat over the 200.

*presumably at some point discounts on the 200 will widen the gap.

I too would buy the Acura over the 200.   But again, we're playing a game of options here.  The fact remains, when *relatively* comparably equipped, these cars are more than a couple grand apart (as they should be).   Navigation is a pretty big deal as far as tech options.

And yes, I'd assume further discounts will push the 200 cheaper eventually.

[superukr]

IMO Acura is the best in ugly contests

[Noto]

It is expected that Honda will dump this 9 speed trouble maker for an in house dual clutch unit in due time.

Source?

[JohnnyMac]

It is expected that Honda will dump this 9 speed trouble maker for an in house dual clutch unit in due time.

Source?

Don't they already have a dual clutch unit in the TLX?  A 8 speed or something.  Why not just option that to the V6 and AWD version as well?

[Great_Big_Abyss]

It is expected that Honda will dump this 9 speed trouble maker for an in house dual clutch unit in due time.

Source?

Don't they already have a dual clutch unit in the TLX?  A 8 speed or something.  Why not just option that to the V6 and AWD version as well?

Because that transmission doesn't have the ouput shaft required for AWD. 

[tooscoops]

nice car... but unfortunately, these are becoming like the 200 of old (and 300/charger) wher ethe off rental fleet is the way to go... not as likely to get the awd, but the s package anyway... (giving an idea, have a 2015 s with roof, nav, etc. and under 20km for 24900).

and the suspension is different on the s package (compared to the limited, touring, c). not sure if it really fixes all the issues you guys had on your tests or not.

overall, it's a much nicer car than the old 200, yet the pricing is very similar (until you get into the awd segment)... not too shabby imo.

oh, also, 2500 on the hood currently on the 16's.

[EV-Light]

I think the 200, especially in the AWD S trim, is a looker, and you can get high end features such as HIDs and ventilated seats, along with AWD and a strong V6 for under $40,000. I can definitely see what people see in them, my hope is that they hold up long term. Based on some of the initial quality results that favorites of mine such as the Grand Cherokee are getting, I would be somewhat leery about purchasing such a teched out Chrysler.

Meh.  Lease it for 4 years and enjoy it while it's under warranty.  I liken this car to cars such as Land Rovers and BMW's.  Great fun when they're working, too much of a PITA to deal with outside of warranty.  Therefore they're lease cars only.

Too bad Chrysler doesn't do leases.

And too bad you are stuck with Chrysler service!


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[EV-Light]

And too see the 200 out selling the Accord recently!

Where did you see that? Perhaps you meant in Canada...


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[SXT]

Damn thats a good looking piece of kit, its kind of awesome the that 'Muricans, the 200 and the Fusion, have the best looking mid sizes in the segment. You park this beside a Camacord and its no contest, IMHO of course.

I still prefer the looks of the 6 over either of those.

If it wasnt for the wheezy little 4 banger and the lack of AWD I would agree with you.

I thought we were talking about the looks.

The total package.....

Uhhh...

Damn thats a good looking piece of kit, its kind of awesome the that 'Muricans, the 200 and the Fusion, have the best looking mid sizes in the segment.

Yeah, but the Mazda only has looks going for it....there is no substance.

Good handling, excellent fuel economy and respectable acceleration from 184 HP.
Car and driver got 7.0 sec and 5-60 mph in 7.2 seconds, not bad but I'm biased as I own one.

[bluelines]

The Alfa Giulietta is a pretty terrible car in every respect other than its looks. It wasn't competitive when it was new, six years ago. Not sure that basing the 200S on this platform is much to be proud of.

Chrysler can't survive on this kind of rental fleet fodder: 39% of 200s go to the rental fleets, second only to the Chevy Cruze. The Altima and Camry are next on the list, but at 27% and 24% respectively, so quite far behind the 200.

[chignectohead]

The 200 and the Dart feature prominently in GoodCarBadCar's report on October 2015 sales for Canada.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/11/canada-worst-selling-autos-october-2015-sales-figures.html

Chrysler managed to move only 740 units of the 200's last month compared to 1800 a year ago. Dodge sold only 183 copies of the Dart compared to 549 a year ago.

A spent force. Already.

I guess you write a road test when the manufacturer offers a press vehicle and politely try to not diss it too much. My feeling about the V6 AWD (cannot remember if they were S or C but one featured blue wood trim inside - argh!) after the second drive was that it is a bit of an old bus. Slightly ponderous and engine intake noise far too prominent, while the 9 speed was as usual, just bad, hopping around ratios climbing hills at city speeds. The Acura implementation is better, but hardly stellar.

Since first driving my first 200 AWD almost 18 months ago, I have also discovered the AWD system was designed for economy, not safety. It separately disconnects drive to the rear via a central clutch on the propeller shaft, and one on each rear axle half-shaft for a total of three, when driving normally. So it is FWD 99% of the time, which explains why it barks its front right tire on full-throttle 1-2 shifts.

When whatever system decides to engage the AWD system, it takes almost half-a-second to do so. First the main prop shaft from front to rear axle has to be spun up to road speed by engaging the centre clutch. Then the individual clutch on each rear half-shaft is engaged. Phew!

Needless to say, this delay on an ice/snow slicked road is hardly of much use if you're tootling along at 60 klicks and get into a slide. In half a second you've covered 25 feet, right into the guardrail. Clever. Also most of the time you're lugging around several hundred pounds of useless hardware.

By contrast, the Legacy AWD is always on the job. It might give a little less fuel economy, but you presumably did not buy AWD in the first place for it to sit on its hands 99% of the time. I believe the Cherokee and Renegade are similarly lumbered with this mistaken philosophy AWD in some models. A Haldex it is not.

[bluelines]

AWD is not going to make any difference if you get into a slide. AWD doesn't help grip in any way. If you're sliding, it's because you've lost grip, which is about tires not which wheels are driven.

AWD will help with traction for getting moving on a slippery surface, but 99.9% of people will never see any benefit from an AWD system. It's purely psychological / marketing benefit, and in a lot of cases is probably more dangerous because people the average person thinks they don't need winter tires. All of these people are lugging around useless hardware, whether it's a well engineered or poorly engineered system.

Needless to say, this delay on an ice/snow slicked road is hardly of much use if you're tootling along at 60 klicks and get into a slide. In half a second you've covered 25 feet, right into the guardrail. Clever. Also most of the time you're lugging around several hundred pounds of useless hardware.

By contrast, the Legacy AWD is always on the job. It might give a little less fuel economy, but you presumably did not buy AWD in the first place for it to sit on its hands 99% of the time. I believe the Cherokee and Renegade are similarly lumbered with this mistaken philosophy AWD in some models. A Haldex it is not.

[Fobroader]

AWD is not going to make any difference if you get into a slide. AWD doesn't help grip in any way. If you're sliding, it's because you've lost grip, which is about tires not which wheels are driven.

AWD will help with traction for getting moving on a slippery surface, but 99.9% of people will never see any benefit from an AWD system. It's purely psychological / marketing benefit, and in a lot of cases is probably more dangerous because people the average person thinks they don't need winter tires. All of these people are lugging around useless hardware, whether it's a well engineered or poorly engineered system.

Needless to say, this delay on an ice/snow slicked road is hardly of much use if you're tootling along at 60 klicks and get into a slide. In half a second you've covered 25 feet, right into the guardrail. Clever. Also most of the time you're lugging around several hundred pounds of useless hardware.

By contrast, the Legacy AWD is always on the job. It might give a little less fuel economy, but you presumably did not buy AWD in the first place for it to sit on its hands 99% of the time. I believe the Cherokee and Renegade are similarly lumbered with this mistaken philosophy AWD in some models. A Haldex it is not.

Incorrect on all counts, entering the slide is one thing....controlling a slide in an awd is simple, keep feeding a little gas and point the wheels kind of where you want to go. FWD are very snappy when it comes to sliding and RWD take some skill.

[OliverD]

AWD is not going to make any difference if you get into a slide. AWD doesn't help grip in any way. If you're sliding, it's because you've lost grip, which is about tires not which wheels are driven.

AWD will help with traction for getting moving on a slippery surface, but 99.9% of people will never see any benefit from an AWD system. It's purely psychological / marketing benefit, and in a lot of cases is probably more dangerous because people the average person thinks they don't need winter tires. All of these people are lugging around useless hardware, whether it's a well engineered or poorly engineered system.

Needless to say, this delay on an ice/snow slicked road is hardly of much use if you're tootling along at 60 klicks and get into a slide. In half a second you've covered 25 feet, right into the guardrail. Clever. Also most of the time you're lugging around several hundred pounds of useless hardware.

By contrast, the Legacy AWD is always on the job. It might give a little less fuel economy, but you presumably did not buy AWD in the first place for it to sit on its hands 99% of the time. I believe the Cherokee and Renegade are similarly lumbered with this mistaken philosophy AWD in some models. A Haldex it is not.

Incorrect on all counts, entering the slide is one thing....controlling a slide in an awd is simple, keep feeding a little gas and point the wheels kind of where you want to go. FWD are very snappy when it comes to sliding and RWD take some skill.

Well you can attempt to control the slide in all three scenarios, you just do it differently based on which wheels are driven.

BTW, I noticed that with ESP you are much less likely to slide, or at least when you do start to slide the system kicks in and corrects you almost immediately.

[EV-Light]

AWD is not going to make any difference if you get into a slide. AWD doesn't help grip in any way. If you're sliding, it's because you've lost grip, which is about tires not which wheels are driven.

AWD will help with traction for getting moving on a slippery surface, but 99.9% of people will never see any benefit from an AWD system. It's purely psychological / marketing benefit, and in a lot of cases is probably more dangerous because people the average person thinks they don't need winter tires. All of these people are lugging around useless hardware, whether it's a well engineered or poorly engineered system.

Needless to say, this delay on an ice/snow slicked road is hardly of much use if you're tootling along at 60 klicks and get into a slide. In half a second you've covered 25 feet, right into the guardrail. Clever. Also most of the time you're lugging around several hundred pounds of useless hardware.

By contrast, the Legacy AWD is always on the job. It might give a little less fuel economy, but you presumably did not buy AWD in the first place for it to sit on its hands 99% of the time. I believe the Cherokee and Renegade are similarly lumbered with this mistaken philosophy AWD in some models. A Haldex it is not.

Incorrect on all counts, entering the slide is one thing....controlling a slide in an awd is simple, keep feeding a little gas and point the wheels kind of where you want to go. FWD are very snappy when it comes to sliding and RWD take some skill.

Agreed on the AWD! RWD is hard to control - but I gotta say, I miss the fun sometimes.