Topic: First Drive: 2012 Toyota Prius C

[dirtyjeffer]

Wing, I agree. But then specify that you are referring to Canadian roads, not any roads. So people would know that they are combustion cars that are more fuel efficient in general.

who cares what is available in other countries...we are talking about vehicles here, not elsewhere...did you know that the MK1 Golf was still manufactured in South Africa up until a couple of years ago??...yea, that mid-80's model was still being built and sold in some parts of the world some 25 years later...but it isn't here, so that car isn't used as a "comparison" to what we have...i mean, even the "old VW Beetle" was still made in Mexico up until mid 2003.

[mmorriso]

how much is a new battery?

can it run without one?

[rrocket]

how much is a new battery?

can it run without one?

Why? 

Battery warranty is 8 years, 160,000kms.

[PJ]

how much is a new battery?

can it run without one?

Why? 

Battery warranty is 8 years, 160,000kms.

Have you never seen a car older then 2004 or with more then 160,000 km on it?  While not a big issue for frequent new car buyers it will be an issue to someone some day.

[rrocket]

Have you never seen a car older then 2004 or with more then 160,000 km on it?  While not a big issue for frequent new car buyers it will be an issue to someone some day.

A battery pack cost no more than an engine of a conventional car.  So if you're scared of a 160,000 km battery pack, I'd also assume you should be scared of a 160,000 gas engine.

FWIW the Prius is one of THE most reliable cars in NA, and tops the list as the most reliable compact car.

[2JDM]

how much is a new battery?

can it run without one?

Why? 

Battery warranty is 8 years, 160,000kms.

Have you never seen a car older then 2004 or with more then 160,000 km on it?  While not a big issue for frequent new car buyers it will be an issue to someone some day.

I was in Vancouver two weeks ago, and the 2007 Prius taxi had just a bit over 700,000 kms on it (apparently). The driver said something with the battery acted up the day of, but the dealer cleaned/serviced one of its sensors, and all was good after that.

[rrocket]

I was in Vancouver two weeks ago, and the 2007 Prius taxi had just a bit over 700,000 kms on it (apparently). The driver said something with the battery acted up the day of, but the dealer cleaned/serviced one of its sensors, and all was good after that.

Funny you mention that, Toyota actually used Vancouver taxis as a testing ground for Prius.  Vancouver had the first hybrid taxi in North America in 2001.  As you know, taxi duty is among the most severe things you can use a car for.  Anyways...Toyota would take the car back with ~300-400,000 kms on it and inspect it, make notes, and give it back (or offer a newer version).

[2JDM]

I was in Vancouver two weeks ago, and the 2007 Prius taxi had just a bit over 700,000 kms on it (apparently). The driver said something with the battery acted up the day of, but the dealer cleaned/serviced one of its sensors, and all was good after that.

Funny you mention that, Toyota actually used Vancouver taxis as a testing ground for Prius.  Vancouver had the first hybrid taxi in North America in 2001.  As you know, taxi duty is among the most severe things you can use a car for.  Anyways...Toyota would take the car back with ~300-400,000 kms on it and inspect it, make notes, and give it back (or offer a newer version).

Well Vancouver's climate makes a huge difference too. But yeah, I was amazed with the mileage. I guessed 400,000 kms, but was I wrong!

[tpl]

Have you never seen a car older then 2004 or with more then 160,000 km on it?  While not a big issue for frequent new car buyers it will be an issue to someone some day.

A battery pack cost no more than an engine of a conventional car.  So if you're scared of a 160,000 km battery pack, I'd also assume you should be scared of a 160,000 gas engine.

FWIW the Prius is one of THE most reliable cars in NA, and tops the list as the most reliable compact car.

Yes but. Unless an IC engine has a catastrophic failure...like a rod through the block, it can be fixed  by  the owner or a mechanic and car mechanics are in good supply.   A hybrid battery pack cannot except possibly the Tesla's pack of many smallc ells.

[rrocket]

Yes but. Unless an IC engine has a catastrophic failure...like a rod through the block, it can be fixed  by  the owner or a mechanic and car mechanics are in good supply.   A hybrid battery pack cannot except possibly the Tesla's pack of many smallc ells.

The Prius packs CAN be rebuilt by those with some knowledge. After reading up on it, I'm fairly certain that a person (let alone a mechanic) with decent skill could do it.  And with so many hybrids on the road, more and more shops are getting into reconditioning of Prius batteries.  A bonus of this is that the older Prius batteries can be fitted with the newer more efficient Prius batteries.    A DIY kit is ~$1100.  If they do the install for you, it's $1,600..and the car is off the road a mere 3 hours.  FWIW, the battery pack weighs about 50Kg.  If you want to forgo a rebuild, a new battery pack is $1900 (or less) and the install is still 3 hours.  My friend who is a forklift mechanic and is certified in batteries and electric lifts said it would be a "piece of cake".  Again..as more and more hybrids hit the road I think more and more mechanics will be able to handle a battery swap.  And certainly from a business stand point, it might not be a bad idea to learn how to do a swap.

Below is a Prius battery pack...you can see the batteries. The photo below that one is the replacement batteries that get swapped in.

Old pack


New batteries:

[tpl]

Okeydokey so is the gear to diagnose bad cells available I wonder...do Toyota dealers even do that or just swap in a new pack.    If they can be diagnosed with cheap ( say <$5000) equipment then I agree with you that there may be a future in the battery replacment/reconditioning business.

[Bubba]

There's a driving school here in Winnipeg that uses a first generation Prius.  I'll have to ask him if it's on the original battery and how many kms are on the car.

[JohnM]

How big is the battery in the C and how much does it weigh?

I'd be very tempted to add a second battery or even a third in parallel with a plug in recharge system.  This would really improve the electric mode flexibility and allow vastly more hypermiling opportunities.

Just thinking out loud - for now.

What will they call electric vehicle modification enthusiasts?  ICE car modifiers are called tuners.  How about chargers?  Let the insults begin!

Cheers,
John M.

[dirtyjeffer]

i read an interesting article on the Focus electric the other day...then i saw the price...$42k...dumb.

at least the Prius C is affordable.

[philmcneal]

260,000 km today! (knock on wood)

04 prius rebuilt title passed Ontario safety (and integrity safety) May of 2012

just don't cheap out on the a/c and let your battery breathe

[Bubba]

There's a driving school here in Winnipeg that uses a first generation Prius.  I'll have to ask him if it's on the original battery and how many kms are on the car.

I spoke to the vehicle owner today: 250,000 km and the original battery.

[johngenx]

Toyota has been selling hybrids for a long time now, and the time and mileages that these cars have logged have proven (at least to me, and I was very skeptical) that battery failure is pretty much a non-issue.  The charging system does not allow the battery to over or under charge and even in extreme weather, failure rates are very, very low.

I typically keep cars to between 300 and 400K, and believe that a Prius would easily reach those mileages without any difficulty or major expense.

If we had to replace the Corolla today, I'd seriously consider the Prius C.

[rrocket]

Toyota has been selling hybrids for a long time now, and the time and mileages that these cars have logged have proven (at least to me, and I was very skeptical) that battery failure is pretty much a non-issue.  The charging system does not allow the battery to over or under charge and even in extreme weather, failure rates are very, very low.

I typically keep cars to between 300 and 400K, and believe that a Prius would easily reach those mileages without any difficulty or major expense.

If we had to replace the Corolla today, I'd seriously consider the Prius C.

Vancouver was the first place in NA (IIRC) to have a small test fleet of taxis.  They would be in service for a few hundred thousand KMs, then Toyota would take them back and give them a thorough review.  They have proven to be shockingly reliable.  CR and JD Power list the Prius as not only THE most reliable small car, but among the most reliable cars on the road period.

And here a little anecdote from one of my SAE Motorsport conferences (I've told the story before):

When Toyota engineers wanted to go hybrid with the first Prius, the President of Toyota was a bit leery about it (rightfully so IMO).  Toyota had a peerless reputation for reliability and Mr. President was very concerned that such a complex vehicle could be problematic and damage Toyota's reputation for quality and reliability.  Eventually he decided to "OK" the project, but basically told them "If this doesn't work properly, it's your ass!"  No wanting to disappoint their boss or have the social stigma of possibly being fired/demoted, the engineers took every precaution to make the Prius as reliable as possible.

[redman]

The only real difference in regards to the Prius C vs the regular Prius appears to be the cargo space. I need the extra cargo space (kids hockey bags etc..) The 5K price differential seems like more of a marketing ploy than a cost ploy. I can't see the "C" costing that much less to produce. If the regular Prius was in the 20K price similar to C pricing, I would not hesitate to pick up a regular Prius.