Author Topic: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?  (Read 4157 times)

Offline tortoise

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Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« on: April 20, 2015, 08:12:31 pm »
I swapped in the summer tires and immediately noticed that the 5 was pulling left. It also does a little sideways motion going oven frost heaves on the highway.

With the winters it tracked dead even. 

FWIW, the rears went on the front (and fronts on the rear) and all tires have even pressure.   The patched tire is on the front.

Tires are asymmetrical but not directional.  Tempted to swap sides to see what happens.

Anyone had this happen to them?
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Offline Bubba

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 08:32:53 pm »
I feel it with my Mazda3.  Tires are asymmetrical but not directional, like yours.  I'm going to check tire pressures tomorrow morning.
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Offline jman72

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2015, 08:44:12 pm »
This has happened to me. Car pulled to one side with new tires, was tracking perfectly with old set. Tried an alignment and it was still pulling left. Swapped the fronts with each other and problem solved.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 08:46:41 pm by jman72 »

Offline blur911

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 09:26:40 pm »
Check the pressures, but yeah, tires can pull to one side due to conicity, swap front to rear one side at a time and see if it goes away.
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Offline wing

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2015, 09:40:10 pm »
Did you check the PCV valve ?  ;)

Offline tortoise

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Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2015, 09:53:12 pm »
Too soon wing. Too soon.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2015, 09:56:28 pm »
Check the pressures, but yeah, tires can pull to one side due to conicity, swap front to rear one side at a time and see if it goes away.
Would swapping side to side accomplish the same thing?  Slightly easier to do.

Offline blur911

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2015, 09:59:30 pm »
Check the pressures, but yeah, tires can pull to one side due to conicity, swap front to rear one side at a time and see if it goes away.
Would swapping side to side accomplish the same thing?  Slightly easier to do.

Might just make it pull the other way, but, if it's now pulling towards the ditch and you swap it might track straight on roads that are  crowned. 

Offline mmret

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2015, 10:29:09 pm »
I've had the same thing happen, once you wear a groove into things hard to get it fixed.

I solved this by labelling my tires and never rotating them :P
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Offline tortoise

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2015, 12:04:36 am »
It is currently pulling against the crown.. So swapping left to right might make it worse.

I think I shall go the route mmret suggests. 

I wonder if the rear camber of the Mazda5 is to blame.

Offline capriracer

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2015, 07:15:06 am »
Tires have a property called "Conicity"  (Root word:  Cone).  It's the force pushing sideways.  It varies from tire to tire and can push in either direction - that is towards the center of the vehicle or towards the outside.  You vector subtract the values to get the net amount of force pushing sideways.

Each vehicles has a certain sensitivity to conicity - a value above which the vehicle starts to drift or pull.  Below that value, the steering system has enough internal friction to prevent the drift or pull.

So you can have a pair of front tires where the difference in the forces is larger than the sensitivity of the vehicle and you'll get a pull.  Swapping the tires left to right should reverse the pull.

BTW, you can wear conicity into a tire by misalignment.

 - BUT -

Alignment can also cause a pull.  So to see if it is the tires or the alignment, swap the front tires left to right:

1)  If the  pull completely changes direction, then the problem is 100% in the tires.  You'll have to either change the tires or live with it.  (You could also swap the tires around to find a position where this doesn't happen, but you will have problems rotating tires.)

2)  If the pull doesn't change at all, then it's 100% in the vehicle.  Usually alignment, but a dragging brake can also do this.

3)  If the pull disappears, then it is both the tires and the alignment.  In all likelihood, the tires are going to wear funny, so this isn't the best solution.
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Offline tortoise

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Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2015, 11:27:50 am »
So I swapped the front tires side to side and it is a lot better.  I can't tell if it's pulling to the right or just following the crown.

It's due for new front shocks so I'll get an alignment after that and go from there.


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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2015, 04:26:31 pm »
Car in the shop Monday.  I'll report back.

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2015, 02:39:40 pm »
The car's current settings were all within spec, so little was done.  Shop charged me $45.95 instead of the $82.95 they charge for alignments.  I may fiddle with tire location now.

See the attached pdf for specs.  Any comments?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 03:44:31 pm by Winklovic »

Offline capriracer

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Re: Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 05:30:45 am »
Just because the alignment is "In Spec" doesn't mean it is OK.  The specs are plenty wide.  The fact that you swapped tires side to side, and things got better is an indication that the alignment is at least partially the problem.

Oh and looking at the sheet - No, the alignment might be in spec, but it's not OK.  Look at the SAI.  That is caused by the rear toe.  They should have adjusted that so they are the same.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 05:35:08 am by capriracer »

Offline tortoise

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Tire Change Affecting Alignment?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2015, 07:35:31 am »
I think you're confusing me and Wink..

I swapped the tires but haven't got an alignment yet.

Wink got the alignment but hasn't swapped tires.

Can you even adjust the rear toe on a Mazda 3?