Topic: Long-Term Test Update 1: 2013 Volkswagen Golf Wagon TDI Diesel

[Solstice2006]

i will be comparing the 3 series diesel to the 328i turbo and the a3 diesel with the a3 2L turbo.  both of these gas engines take premium fuel which is about 20 cents more a litre most of the time as well as not being as fuel efficient.   the cars are going to be very close in price as well.   in the case of the jetta tdi and the cruz eco, no one has factored in resale.  the tdi's seem to retain their values very well which negates the higher cost of purchasing the car.
[/quote]

That sounds like a good comparo, but I have a feeling the 3 series is larger than the a3, I think the a4 is closer.  When you say the new a3, I assume you mean the generation that was just released in europe and coming soon here, not tdi has been confirmed that I can see, did you see it somewhere?

[tommyg]

This vehicle is exactly what i am looking for in terms of economy, practicality and drivability. I also think it looks great, but I am concerned about the VW's reputation for horrendous reliablilty more that anything else! I talk to as many owners as i can about their experiences and it seems to be split approx 50/50 between those who would not but anything else, and those who would never buy another!  These odds seem pretty daunting to me!  A few months ago i ran into a former co-worker that owns a golf/jetta tdi wagon less that he purchased new approx 1.5 years ago (he is a regional sales rep...puts on lots of mileage).  We were standing at the cash at the local electronics store and i asked him how he liked his vehicle.  He said it was currently in the shop getting warranty work done getting its 4th fuel pump!  In fact he said he had only driven it approx 75% of the time he has had it, otherwise it had been in the shop getting work done, waiting for parts, investigating gremlins, etc. The sales clerk then chimed in saying he had a late 90's vintage jetta tdi with over 360k on it, that he actually enjoyed driving, but related similar stories of dodgy reliability and said he will be definatley looking elsewhere in the future as a result.  In fairness, i also have a good friend who clocks a lot of mileage who has had many TDIs over the years and will never consider anything else!  In fact, i have never seen a vehilce evoke such strong emotions as VWs...seems to be an even split between love and hate!  I still think diesels are the way to go for everyday ecomony and drivablilty, but i think i will defer the VW option until they can improve these odds!  Anyway, it will be interesting to see what your verdict is after putting it through the paces!

[jyarkony]

There used to be a big gap between diesel and gasoline as far as fuel consumption. There's not much in it now. The TDi Golf and Cruze Eco both hit 0-60 in roughly 8.3 seconds and get similar fuel economy, for example.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/fun-at-40-mpg-feature

despite the EPA ratings, Consumer Reports real world testing puts the Cruze Eco far lower than its claimed EPA estimates, and only ever making up its higher price in 8 years of ownership (unless of course, gas prices skyrocket).

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/07/ford-focus-sfe-chevrolet-cruze-eco-and-honda-civic-hf-review/index.htm

Mazda3 and Corolla gave some pretty good numbers in our Compact comparisons, but none of them have delivered anything as low as the mid-6 L/100 km i've seen in the Passat TDI, Golf TDI, and am now seeing in the Golf Wagon TDI. I doubt it would ever recoup the difference in price to leap up to this pricey wagon though, but a basic Golf TDI would run about the same as a mid-level Mazda3葉hat's the hard choice I'd look at, but the torque in the TDI might be the difference maker for me容ven in the 3, the SkyActiv-G just feels gutless.

[mixmanmash]

I find that it is very easy to meet or exceed the posted fuel consumption ratings with a diesel. A gasoline car, not so much. At least that is what I have discovered in the gasoline vs diesel debate.

This is especially true with downsized gasoline cars. They tend to fall far behind their official ratings, as has been discovered in independent tests.

Quoted for truth.

[dirtyjeffer]

... but the torque in the TDI might be the difference maker for me容ven in the 3, the SkyActiv-G just feels gutless.

hence my comment earlier about the torque and nice driveability of an engine you don't need to flog to enjoy. 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

There used to be a big gap between diesel and gasoline as far as fuel consumption. There's not much in it now. The TDi Golf and Cruze Eco both hit 0-60 in roughly 8.3 seconds and get similar fuel economy, for example.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/fun-at-40-mpg-feature

despite the EPA ratings, Consumer Reports real world testing puts the Cruze Eco far lower than its claimed EPA estimates, and only ever making up its higher price in 8 years of ownership (unless of course, gas prices skyrocket).

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/07/ford-focus-sfe-chevrolet-cruze-eco-and-honda-civic-hf-review/index.htm

Mazda3 and Corolla gave some pretty good numbers in our Compact comparisons, but none of them have delivered anything as low as the mid-6 L/100 km i've seen in the Passat TDI, Golf TDI, and am now seeing in the Golf Wagon TDI. I doubt it would ever recoup the difference in price to leap up to this pricey wagon though, but a basic Golf TDI would run about the same as a mid-level Mazda3葉hat's the hard choice I'd look at, but the torque in the TDI might be the difference maker for me容ven in the 3, the SkyActiv-G just feels gutless.

CR had a point about the Eco package over the regular Cruze variant. It's a long 8 year payout given the cost of the package. It doesn't mean that it gets poor mileage. They were getting 40 US mpg on the highway after all, and that was with the conventional automatic. The Focus SFE hit 43 US mpg (3 year payback on SFE package) and the Civic HF hit 49 US mpg (6 year payback on package). So as I said, not much in it compared to the pricey TDi.

The EPA numbers are really easy to hit. It they can do it in the TDi, they can do it in anything else. The TDi is breathless above 3k or so, so there's not much point in higher revs. Pretty much any modern gas burner can hit the redline without protest. Auto testers like that kind of shenanigans, and their fuel numbers suffer for it.

I've found diesels to be a bit of a novelty, but I'd get tired pretty quickly of a tractor motor after a while. The pancake 4 gasoline engine in the last Outback started to get on my nerves after a few years. Smooth at higher revs, but rough down around idle.

[dkaz]

Mazda 3 Skyactiv and Golf TDI are not the same price. Jetta TDI Comfortline was a final three finalist in my car search although barely with its $23.8k sticker price.

My Mazda 3 with moonroof and leather came in at $21.5k. Had I gone with the Jetta TDI, I would've lost the leather, power seats (only available in the GLI?), moonroof, auto headlights and auto wipers, automatic door locks (only available with automatic transmission with the Jetta) and got a car that didn't handle quite as well for an extra $2,300, although I would've got more rear leg room and admittedly I would've got a slightly nicer looking car. I'm currently getting 7.1 L/100km in my 3, how much better would I have gotten with a TDI?

In the end, the value wasn't there. The Passat TDI is a better buy if one can spring the extra $4,000.

[greengs]

There used to be a big gap between diesel and gasoline as far as fuel consumption. There's not much in it now. The TDi Golf and Cruze Eco both hit 0-60 in roughly 8.3 seconds and get similar fuel economy, for example.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/fun-at-40-mpg-feature

despite the EPA ratings, Consumer Reports real world testing puts the Cruze Eco far lower than its claimed EPA estimates, and only ever making up its higher price in 8 years of ownership (unless of course, gas prices skyrocket).

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/07/ford-focus-sfe-chevrolet-cruze-eco-and-honda-civic-hf-review/index.htm

Mazda3 and Corolla gave some pretty good numbers in our Compact comparisons, but none of them have delivered anything as low as the mid-6 L/100 km i've seen in the Passat TDI, Golf TDI, and am now seeing in the Golf Wagon TDI. I doubt it would ever recoup the difference in price to leap up to this pricey wagon though, but a basic Golf TDI would run about the same as a mid-level Mazda3葉hat's the hard choice I'd look at, but the torque in the TDI might be the difference maker for me容ven in the 3, the SkyActiv-G just feels gutless.

I've seen 4.5L/100 kms on the Passat TDI going over 110km/h (on this site).  Try that with any other compact let alone midsize sedan.

http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2012-volkswagen-passat/2/

[Ace]

There used to be a big gap between diesel and gasoline as far as fuel consumption. There's not much in it now. The TDi Golf and Cruze Eco both hit 0-60 in roughly 8.3 seconds and get similar fuel economy, for example.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/fun-at-40-mpg-feature

despite the EPA ratings, Consumer Reports real world testing puts the Cruze Eco far lower than its claimed EPA estimates, and only ever making up its higher price in 8 years of ownership (unless of course, gas prices skyrocket).

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/07/ford-focus-sfe-chevrolet-cruze-eco-and-honda-civic-hf-review/index.htm

Mazda3 and Corolla gave some pretty good numbers in our Compact comparisons, but none of them have delivered anything as low as the mid-6 L/100 km i've seen in the Passat TDI, Golf TDI, and am now seeing in the Golf Wagon TDI. I doubt it would ever recoup the difference in price to leap up to this pricey wagon though, but a basic Golf TDI would run about the same as a mid-level Mazda3—that's the hard choice I'd look at, but the torque in the TDI might be the difference maker for me—even in the 3, the SkyActiv-G just feels gutless.

I've seen 4.5L/100 kms on the Passat TDI going over 110km/h (on this site).  Try that with any other compact let alone midsize sedan.

http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2012-volkswagen-passat/2/

Don't believe everything you read. The only way I could average under 4.5L/100 KMS with my 2011 TDI/6MT wagon would be hyperkilometering downhill with a tailwind.
I average between 5.5 and 6 L/100kms with 75% highway driving, mostly over the speed limit

[dkaz]

The Passat is slightly more efficient on the highway though because of its shape, by a few tenths of a l/100km.

In the US, the TDI is rated 41 mpg or 5.7 l/100km.

[Bubba]

Has anyone read the Car and Driver test of the 2013 Beetle TDI?  They got 45 mpg with it in mixed driving; damn impressive imho.

[Ace]

The Passat is slightly more efficient on the highway though because of its shape, by a few tenths of a l/100km.

In the US, the TDI is rated 41 mpg or 5.7 l/100km.

Which equals 49 canadian(imperial) mpg

[greengs]

There used to be a big gap between diesel and gasoline as far as fuel consumption. There's not much in it now. The TDi Golf and Cruze Eco both hit 0-60 in roughly 8.3 seconds and get similar fuel economy, for example.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/fun-at-40-mpg-feature

despite the EPA ratings, Consumer Reports real world testing puts the Cruze Eco far lower than its claimed EPA estimates, and only ever making up its higher price in 8 years of ownership (unless of course, gas prices skyrocket).

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/07/ford-focus-sfe-chevrolet-cruze-eco-and-honda-civic-hf-review/index.htm

Mazda3 and Corolla gave some pretty good numbers in our Compact comparisons, but none of them have delivered anything as low as the mid-6 L/100 km i've seen in the Passat TDI, Golf TDI, and am now seeing in the Golf Wagon TDI. I doubt it would ever recoup the difference in price to leap up to this pricey wagon though, but a basic Golf TDI would run about the same as a mid-level Mazda3葉hat's the hard choice I'd look at, but the torque in the TDI might be the difference maker for me容ven in the 3, the SkyActiv-G just feels gutless.

I've seen 4.5L/100 kms on the Passat TDI going over 110km/h (on this site).  Try that with any other compact let alone midsize sedan.

http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2012-volkswagen-passat/2/

Don't believe everything you read. The only way I could average under 4.5L/100 KMS with my 2011 TDI/6MT wagon would be hyperkilometering with a tailwind.
I average between 5.5 and 6 L/100kms with 75% highway driving, mostly over the speed limit

I'm sure that was all highway driving but the fact they could achieve 4.5L/100kms in any type of driving is impressive.  When I look on fuelly new passats average just under 6L/100kms which again is most impressive for a car that size. 

[dirtyjeffer]

I'm sure that was all highway driving but the fact they could achieve 4.5L/100kms in any type of driving is impressive.  When I look on fuelly new passats average just under 6L/100kms which again is most impressive for a car that size.

exactly...having sat in the Passat, it's friggen huge...picture a Ford Crown Victoria...with better handling...a nicer interior...sipping fuel...and actually having a resale value.

[chuckromain@hotmail.com]

What about stop / start feature like Euro models?

[hemusbull]

It's so pity Europeans want desperately to get just money from NorthAmerican market. This geopolitical strategy they follow after WWII. They do not offer affordable vehicles here, instead they do offer just overpriced in any respective class. This VW, together with all people's transportation from two door basic Golf to W8 Passat are over the price range of their dorect competiotors. Of course, they do not offer start/stop technology or 1.4 gas engine as Fiat 500 do. Their game is to get the enormous amont out of  our pockets and so they have killed their own philosophy for cheap, basic transportation for the masses. From beloved Ferdinand Porsche to the hated dictator, all of these were thinking for cheap and affordable "people's cars"!

[tpl]

Well it is the USA and Canada that have regulations that are different from the ones adopted by the EU and used in most of the rest of the world.   In the past, those two sets of regulations were quite different but now they are so near the same that it would be reasonable for Canada, a country with no indigenous car manufacturing to accept the EU regulations as well as the US ones.  Then maybe we would get the  cars that you would like but I suggest they would not necessarily be cheap. and they small ones might not sell well enough to pay for the fuel for the ships to bring them here.

[Northernridge]

It's so pity Europeans want desperately to get just money from NorthAmerican market. This geopolitical strategy they follow after WWII. They do not offer affordable vehicles here, instead they do offer just overpriced in any respective class. This VW, together with all people's transportation from two door basic Golf to W8 Passat are over the price range of their dorect competiotors. Of course, they do not offer start/stop technology or 1.4 gas engine as Fiat 500 do. Their game is to get the enormous amont out of  our pockets and so they have killed their own philosophy for cheap, basic transportation for the masses. From beloved Ferdinand Porsche to the hated dictator, all of these were thinking for cheap and affordable "people's cars"!

Bah! It's just marketing. North Americans don't want cheap Euro cars (CECs?), we want fancy FGCs.

[OliverD]

It's so pity Europeans want desperately to get just money from NorthAmerican market. This geopolitical strategy they follow after WWII. They do not offer affordable vehicles here, instead they do offer just overpriced in any respective class. This VW, together with all people's transportation from two door basic Golf to W8 Passat are over the price range of their dorect competiotors. Of course, they do not offer start/stop technology or 1.4 gas engine as Fiat 500 do. Their game is to get the enormous amont out of  our pockets and so they have killed their own philosophy for cheap, basic transportation for the masses. From beloved Ferdinand Porsche to the hated dictator, all of these were thinking for cheap and affordable "people's cars"!

A big reason for this is the fact that it is difficult to profitably sell lower end vehicles in North America that are built in Europe. Cars are in general much more expensive in Europe too, further exacerbating the situation. This is why the current Jetta and Passat are relatively cheap here, having been engineered specifically for the American market and being built on this side of the Atlantic, but the Golf is still somewhat expensive.

[dirtyjeffer]

This is why the current Jetta and Passat are relatively cheap here, having been engineered specifically for the American market and being built on this side of the Atlantic, but the Golf is still somewhat expensive.

that, and the Golf is a "premium" or "step up" from the Jetta, which is how it is everywhere else...personally, i really like the new Passat, especially in TDi trim...full size car, sub-compact fuel economy (at least in the warmer summer months).