Topic: First Drive: 2017 Subaru BRZ

[Fobroader]

I appreciate this type of car, but by the time I could afford one after paying off student debt, I was saving for other things... And still am.

By the time I have the disposable income for a second "fun" car, the fun-first of this class of car will be less appealing than something more friendly/luxurious. Enter the Z4 hard top convertible.

While that may be $50k (and now dead...), If I had $30k for a 2-seater fun car, I'd privacy have $50k for one.

... And it's the CUV (biggest car for least cash... Kinda like buying a Ridgeline for $50k when I could get an F-150 out whatever that could do more (tow/haul, seat 5, winter, offroad, etc).

It's the "one car that can do everything" that killed this class of car. It can do two things: move two people, sometimes sideways, and get police attention.

My Forester XT can move 5 people, be driven year round with no issue or concern for ground clearance, can haul cargo/skis, helped me move between cities frequently, etc.  May not be AS fun to drive, but I find it wicked fun nonetheless. Why compromise?

You're really comparing a Forester XT to a BRZ in the "fun category?"

"Yeah I remember lapping the Nurburgring in that Porsche, those were the days"
"Oh yeah, well I get the same feeling when I take the wifes Highlander on an off ramp"

 

[Trainman]

....

My Forester XT can move 5 people, be driven year round with no issue or concern for ground clearance, can haul cargo/skis, helped me move between cities frequently, etc.  May not be AS fun to drive, but I find it wicked fun nonetheless. Why compromise?

You're really comparing a Forester XT to a BRZ in the "fun category?"

Oh yes, I get where No-san is coming from.  The current XT has the guts of the WRX (engine with a bit different tune, CVT trannie and brakes) plus a revised suspension setup from the regular Forester.  It is a blast to drive, with some challenges to drive quick.  Plus you can do it with the family, and/or on gravel.  It is easy to get 4 wheel drifts on the gravel, and not worry about chewing your tires up.  Good fun indeed   

[SaskSpecV]

Sales are still terrible.  Sold 70 last month in Canada, which is actually pretty good, but BRZ is at ~ 600 units YTD, down 13%.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2016/10/september-2016-canada-sports-car-sales-figures.html#more

I'm not sure what the biggest sales obstacle would be.  It's not practical - but it's just as practical as a Camaro, which vastly outsells it (even though it too is struggling), and it's more practical than a Miata (which sells in about the same volume).  Is it simply the lack of power?  But would dropping the turbo 2.0L in there really crank up sales, or would potential customers find another excuse to not buy it?  Likewise, would making a drop-top stimulate many new sales?  Or is the "sports car" category simply a diminishing market from now on, regardless of how good the entries are?

When I picked up the Forester (June 2015), I asked the sales manager about the BRZ sitting in the front of the showroom.  He said they had a number of sales when it was brand new, but even at that time it was extremely low-volume.  And they'd been struggling to move them since.  To paraphrase: "The single guys in their 20s want to drive one, but don't have any money to buy it.  The Gen X married guys might be interested, and could have the money to buy it, but it's not practical enough for them.  And the retired boomers have the money, and don't need practicality, but can't even sit in the damn thing as its so low to the ground..."

[ArticSteve]

If Toyota turned the 86 (FRS) into a rag top it would sell really well.  Right now it's DOA as is the Subie.

Both the 86 and the BRZ use the exact same tires as found on the Prius Touring.  What's that tell ya! 

[pi314]

I definitely fit the target demographic for this car age/income wise.

And SKYMTL's comments are on point. I'd want a car like this, but it's not practical. I'm moving within walking distance to work. This means I'll use my car purely for recreation - road trips, grocery shopping, etc. But the BRZ doesn't really suit my requirements - I don't commute, and rarely do I make trips by myself. I'd rather a miata for a two-seater impractical car.

In this price-range I'd likely end up with a Focus/Fiesta ST. While, yes, BRZ is RWD, the car has many other drawbacks.
If limited to RWD, the Mustang comes to mind, and is appealing for other reasons.

I'm not alone in this thinking - many of my friends are entering the workforce now and their car purchases reflect this - a friend bought a 4 year old GTI, another is looking at hatchbacks, another friend bought a Matrix, and so on. Some of my friends are strange and don't like the way hatches look, but they still ended up with subcompact/compact sedans. NoTo's own example also sorta counts, though he can't really claim the Forester is as fun as a BRZ. But he also can't seem to buy a manual vehicle so

I'm personally oscillating between buying 2 used cars, or one new. We'll see what happens.

I really would like the BRZ to succeed, especially since it's a new car with a stickshift. I think it'd have more success as a convertible, but who knows.

[Mike]

If Toyota turned the 86 (FRS) into a rag top it would sell really well.  Right now it's DOA as is the Subie.

Both the 86 and the BRZ use the exact same tires as found on the Prius Touring.  What's that tell ya! 

I can't speak to the 86, but the BRZ doesn't wear the same tires as the Canadian spec Prius Touring. The BRZ wears Michelin® Primacy HP summer tires, the Prius I believe has all-seasons.

A Japanese spec version of the Prius does come with same summer tires (hence the whole claim they wear Prius tires)

[dkaz]

If I didn't get into motorcycling, the BRZ/86 would still be the front runner of my eventual fun car. Driving my Mazda 3 on the twisty highways of BC, I've never really felt the need for more power. I want something that'll take a corner faster. Maybe in Alberta where it's just a bunch of boring straight roads, the BRZ/86 wouldn't be anywhere in my radar.

But now that I've gotten into motorcycling, I can have 3x more fun at 3x less cost.

[Noto]

I never said the fozzie is AS fun as the BRZ to drive...I just said, generally, I enjoy driving it. I don't feel left wanting, unlike when I drive the Corolla.

[ArticSteve]

If Toyota turned the 86 (FRS) into a rag top it would sell really well.  Right now it's DOA as is the Subie.

Both the 86 and the BRZ use the exact same tires as found on the Prius Touring.  What's that tell ya! 

I can't speak to the 86, but the BRZ doesn't wear the same tires as the Canadian spec Prius Touring. The BRZ wears Michelin® Primacy HP summer tires, the Prius I believe has all-seasons.

A Japanese spec version of the Prius does come with same summer tires (hence the whole claim they wear Prius tires)

Might be a little hair splitting on the rubber, but the tires are the same exact size.

The rear axle ratios in these units illustrate the GIANT power deficit; a final drive ratio of 4.30:1 .    Hence you get 3000 rpm @ 112kph. 

[Mike]

I appreciate this type of car, but by the time I could afford one after paying off student debt, I was saving for other things... And still am.

By the time I have the disposable income for a second "fun" car, the fun-first of this class of car will be less appealing than something more friendly/luxurious. Enter the Z4 hard top convertible.

While that may be $50k (and now dead...), If I had $30k for a 2-seater fun car, I'd privacy have $50k for one.

... And it's the CUV (biggest car for least cash... Kinda like buying a Ridgeline for $50k when I could get an F-150 out whatever that could do more (tow/haul, seat 5, winter, offroad, etc).

It's the "one car that can do everything" that killed this class of car. It can do two things: move two people, sometimes sideways, and get police attention.

My Forester XT can move 5 people, be driven year round with no issue or concern for ground clearance, can haul cargo/skis, helped me move between cities frequently, etc.  May not be AS fun to drive, but I find it wicked fun nonetheless. Why compromise?

You're really comparing a Forester XT to a BRZ in the "fun category?"

Who would do such a crazy, crazy thing? Insane really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMZ32DkHWoQ

[SaskSpecV]

The rear axle ratios in these units illustrate the GIANT power deficit; a final drive ratio of 4.30:1 .    Hence you get 3000 rpm @ 112kph. 

I noticed that too.  A 4.30:1 rear end is for a heavy-duty truck...not a sports car!   But 3000 rpm on the highway isn't that bad - you'd be close to 4000 rpm in a Fit!