Author Topic: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid  (Read 23154 times)

Offline Neromanceres

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2016, 11:59:45 am »
I think It's about time someone did this and I like how Chrysler is doing it.  So far it appears to be a very compelling package.

Like others have said can Chrysler do it with decent reliability?  How well sorted and calibrated will everything run?  And of course pricing.

The base Pacifica runs at $44K with limited starting at $53K which is already fairly steep to start.  If they can have a base PHEV start in the low $50's it would be a compelling package and it would qualify for the full $14K rebate in Ontario (after taxes).  It might also qualify for the sales tax exemption in 2018.   If so that would put it at a price that is very comparable to the gas Pacifica (in Ontario).



I have my doubts about that.  I've been told the MSRP is significantly higher.  And it won't qualify for the highest rebate because of the battery pack size.

And heaven forbid it needs to visit the dealer.  FCA dealers are already the worst in the industry.

Battery pack size is 16KWh and will seat 5 or more people.  Also the $14K will likely be less than 30% of the MSRP so the Pacifica PHEV should qualify for the full amount.

Offline Neromanceres

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2016, 12:02:30 pm »
If the Ontario "free electricity for EV's" program does indeed make it for 2018, that means $1600 per year savings compared to today's gas prices, comparing to running costs of a $37K gas vehicle.

Very compelling in Ontario.


What free electricity for EVs ?

The full details haven`t been revealed but the Ontario government will create a program that will allow free overnight charging of electric cars for 4 years.

Not sure why though.  My Volt only costs me $2 to fully charge off-peak (includes delivery and HST costs).  Though even that is rare because on most days i`m only using half a battery charge in the summer.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/06/07/revealed-ontarios-climate-change-action-plan.html
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 12:12:14 pm by Neromanceres »

Offline X-Traction

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2016, 06:25:17 pm »

I'm guessing with the Pacifica's 16.6kwh battery that unless you're forcing it to stay in EV mode that liklihood of running down your battery is even less. (The escape is a 1.8kwh, correct?)

Your comment made me realize I didn't know the capacity of the Escape Hybrid's battery pack.  So I looked it up.  More common on the Internet for that spec is 1.6kwh.  The exact number isn't important for what we're discussing anyway.

It's important what these numbers represent.  I saw only one place that mentioned it is for a 50% charge at a favorable temperature.  And is that kwh number for fully discharging the pack, or discharging it down to 40%?  Similarly, there's no indication of just what the Pacifica's 16.6kwh figure is for.

In any case, and in the interest of battery longevity, I think the Pacifica would be set up to use only some middle portion of the battery's potential capacity.   To me, the more important numbers are: how far can it go in ev-only mode, and how fast can it go in ev-only mode.

Whatever the details...

I presume the Pacifica, like other plug-in hybrids, is designed to operate in electric-only mode until some minimum level of charge is reached.  At that point, I'd think it would be vulnerable to the same ICE-only operation as a regular hybrid climbing a long steep hill.**  Prior to reaching that level of discharge, and while climbing a steep hill, it would have to choose between electric-only and electric+ICE.  I don't know how the Pacifica, or any other plug-in hybrid manages this.  Probably it depends on the maximum power output capability of their ev-only system.  For instance, does it have an electric motor powerful enough to propel a loaded van up a steep hill at 100kph?  Or can the battery discharge fast enough to provide all the power needed?

**Unlike my understanding of the Volt, which I think is set up to run the gas engine to charge the battery pack beyond what's needed for immediate propulsion.  I stand to be corrected on that, though.

I've described highway operation of my Escape Hybrid.  I also use it to drive from sea level up logging roads and old mining roads high into BC's mountains. These ascents commonly gain 3000' vertical, but can be up to twice that.  The amount of energy needed to raise two tons so much elevation means that I quickly exhaust whatever charge is available from the hybrid battery.  Then, it's ICE-only to the top. 

On the descent, the potential energy involved in keeping two tons from free-falling is so great that the battery pack is soon full to the rated capacity.  It then stops accepting charge and the remainder of the descent is on the mechanical brakes.  (Which do fine as long as you keep the speed down.  But I'd much rather have a low range for this.) Even for highway drivers, this can become an issue towing trailers on mountainous highways.

Presumably the Pacifica's much larger battery would mean more of such descents would be done by regenerative braking, but even so these descents are so great even the larger battery would be full to capacity long before the bottom.  Someone with a physics degree could tell us how much of a descent would fill up the Pacifica's battery.  The neat thing is that at the bottom, you'd then have the fully rated distance available in ev-only mode.  Which would cancel out how much gas you used to get up part of the climb to begin with.  Whereas with the Escape Hybrid, I can only go 2km or so on a flat road at under 63kph before I've used up the charge gained on a big descent.

This would be a good time to repeat the Hinton story.  Last summer, we ran out of gas in the wrong part of Hinton.  Except my calculations underway indicated we were not out of gas.  The "STOP SAFELY NOW" indicator came on.  This is the worst thing that can show up on the Escape Hybrid's dashboard, and means: "Pull off the road and stop immediately, and call a tow truck for delivery to the nearest Ford dealer for an expensive repair."  Alarms sounded and lights flashed.  The gas engine quit and wouldn't start.  The a/c quit (and it was a scorching day).  Besides the heat, I was sweating from the tension of the moment.  But I discovered that as long as I stayed under 30kph, the thing would still drive.  We made it to a gas station on the remaining charge, waited while the RV drivers left their vehicles lined up at the pumps while they shopped in the convencience store, and a fillup fixed everything.  Phew.  Occupants of the Escape were impressed that it had this reserve capability.
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Offline theonlydt

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2016, 06:57:50 pm »

I'm guessing with the Pacifica's 16.6kwh battery that unless you're forcing it to stay in EV mode that liklihood of running down your battery is even less. (The escape is a 1.8kwh, correct?)

Your comment made me realize I didn't know the capacity of the Escape Hybrid's battery pack.  So I looked it up.  More common on the Internet for that spec is 1.6kwh.  The exact number isn't important for what we're discussing anyway.

It's important what these numbers represent.  I saw only one place that mentioned it is for a 50% charge at a favorable temperature.  And is that kwh number for fully discharging the pack, or discharging it down to 40%?  Similarly, there's no indication of just what the Pacifica's 16.6kwh figure is for.

In any case, and in the interest of battery longevity, I think the Pacifica would be set up to use only some middle portion of the battery's potential capacity.   To me, the more important numbers are: how far can it go in ev-only mode, and how fast can it go in ev-only mode.

Whatever the details...

I presume the Pacifica, like other plug-in hybrids, is designed to operate in electric-only mode until some minimum level of charge is reached.  At that point, I'd think it would be vulnerable to the same ICE-only operation as a regular hybrid climbing a long steep hill.**  Prior to reaching that level of discharge, and while climbing a steep hill, it would have to choose between electric-only and electric+ICE.  I don't know how the Pacifica, or any other plug-in hybrid manages this.  Probably it depends on the maximum power output capability of their ev-only system.  For instance, does it have an electric motor powerful enough to propel a loaded van up a steep hill at 100kph?  Or can the battery discharge fast enough to provide all the power needed?

**Unlike my understanding of the Volt, which I think is set up to run the gas engine to charge the battery pack beyond what's needed for immediate propulsion.  I stand to be corrected on that, though.

I've described highway operation of my Escape Hybrid.  I also use it to drive from sea level up logging roads and old mining roads high into BC's mountains. These ascents commonly gain 3000' vertical, but can be up to twice that.  The amount of energy needed to raise two tons so much elevation means that I quickly exhaust whatever charge is available from the hybrid battery.  Then, it's ICE-only to the top. 

On the descent, the potential energy involved in keeping two tons from free-falling is so great that the battery pack is soon full to the rated capacity.  It then stops accepting charge and the remainder of the descent is on the mechanical brakes.  (Which do fine as long as you keep the speed down.  But I'd much rather have a low range for this.) Even for highway drivers, this can become an issue towing trailers on mountainous highways.

Presumably the Pacifica's much larger battery would mean more of such descents would be done by regenerative braking, but even so these descents are so great even the larger battery would be full to capacity long before the bottom.  Someone with a physics degree could tell us how much of a descent would fill up the Pacifica's battery.  The neat thing is that at the bottom, you'd then have the fully rated distance available in ev-only mode.  Which would cancel out how much gas you used to get up part of the climb to begin with.  Whereas with the Escape Hybrid, I can only go 2km or so on a flat road at under 63kph before I've used up the charge gained on a big descent.

This would be a good time to repeat the Hinton story.  Last summer, we ran out of gas in the wrong part of Hinton.  Except my calculations underway indicated we were not out of gas.  The "STOP SAFELY NOW" indicator came on.  This is the worst thing that can show up on the Escape Hybrid's dashboard, and means: "Pull off the road and stop immediately, and call a tow truck for delivery to the nearest Ford dealer for an expensive repair."  Alarms sounded and lights flashed.  The gas engine quit and wouldn't start.  The a/c quit (and it was a scorching day).  Besides the heat, I was sweating from the tension of the moment.  But I discovered that as long as I stayed under 30kph, the thing would still drive.  We made it to a gas station on the remaining charge, waited while the RV drivers left their vehicles lined up at the pumps while they shopped in the convencience store, and a fillup fixed everything.  Phew.  Occupants of the Escape were impressed that it had this reserve capability.

Wow, that's a close call.

I'd love autos.ca to have someone become an expert in hybrids and get into some real detail with these questions for engineers - and then try and replicate in real world tests.

Offline bye

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2016, 07:00:26 pm »
Ontario government will create a program that will allow free overnight charging of electric cars for 4 years.
Not sure why though.  My Volt only costs me $2 to fully charge off-peak (includes delivery and HST costs)

My take on this is that the word "free" makes people irrational and excited, and this will induce them to purchase a plug-in vehicle due to the "free fuel".   
It may appeal to the same folks who frequent all you can eat buffet restaurants.   ::)  :o

Seriously though, I agree that this will be such a low cost for the province to run, and it is absolutely in the best interests of the current Nuclear power base load off-peak over-production as per my blog article:
http://mysmartelectricdrive.blogspot.ca/2014/03/choose-one-boil-steam-or-recharge.html


Offline EV Dan

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2016, 07:49:09 pm »
Ontario government will create a program that will allow free overnight charging of electric cars for 4 years.
Not sure why though.  My Volt only costs me $2 to fully charge off-peak (includes delivery and HST costs)

My take on this is that the word "free" makes people irrational and excited, and this will induce them to purchase a plug-in vehicle due to the "free fuel".   
It may appeal to the same folks who frequent all you can eat buffet restaurants.   ::)  :o

Seriously though, I agree that this will be such a low cost for the province to run, and it is absolutely in the best interests of the current Nuclear power base load off-peak over-production as per my blog article:
http://mysmartelectricdrive.blogspot.ca/2014/03/choose-one-boil-steam-or-recharge.html

If I'm not mistaken there is an electricity consumption threshold for a household beyond which the rate becomes the same as on-peak regardless of what time of day consumption occurs. While "free" electricity may not be necessary, I think that consumption threshold should be removed for ppl who own EVs.
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Offline Neromanceres

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2016, 10:20:01 pm »

I'm guessing with the Pacifica's 16.6kwh battery that unless you're forcing it to stay in EV mode that liklihood of running down your battery is even less. (The escape is a 1.8kwh, correct?)

**Unlike my understanding of the Volt, which I think is set up to run the gas engine to charge the battery pack beyond what's needed for immediate propulsion.  I stand to be corrected on that, though.


The Volt's gas engine tries to not charge the battery as much as possible as that would waste energy.

I will use the Gen II Volt's numbers.

The Gen II Volt has a rated capacity of 18.4KWh.  Of this 14.4KWh is used for EV operation (~75%).  ~5% is reserved for hybrid operation.  And ~20% is for battery longevity (deep discharging a battery is a no-no).

The Gen II Volt unlike the Gen I Volt is a pure parallel hybrid when in gas mode.  The gas engine puts most of it's torque to the wheels.   The electric motors are there for low end torque response and to improve motor efficiency.

The Gen I Volt had a parallel mode where the generator supplied power direct to the electric motor (with battery acting as buffer) and a series mode where both motor generator were clutched to the wheels in a torque split.

For a great explanation of the Gen II volt's 5 operating modes see the link below.
http://gm-volt.com/2015/02/20/gen-2-volt-transmission-operating-modes-explained/

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2016, 04:14:35 pm »
Hey Tooscoop , is anyone buying these things ?

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2016, 07:57:06 pm »
still not out yet... and i don't get many people actually asking about it to be honest... the ones that do aren't actually in the market...
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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2016, 08:42:07 pm »
still not out yet... and i don't get many people actually asking about it to be honest... the ones that do aren't actually in the market...
Sorry , I thought this was the regular pacific thread  :bang:

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2016, 10:27:45 am »
meh... still a similar answer in the regular thread! ha!

we've sold one.... whoop dee do!

nice vans... but not all that much interest... we've demo'd 3 to bring down pricing a bit. the people driving them like em.

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2016, 09:02:35 am »
meh... still a similar answer in the regular thread! ha!

we've sold one.... whoop dee do!

nice vans... but not all that much interest... we've demo'd 3 to bring down pricing a bit. the people driving them like em.
Do people just think they are too pricey ?

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2016, 03:02:04 pm »
yep. out of every ten people walking in the door, i'd say 6 are on or considering the vans. of those 6, 5+ want a van under 30k.

We sell maybe 5 t&c or R/T vans a year on the new lot. quite a few used, but that's a whole other story. my cheapest new pacifica will set customers back over 600 a month for 8 years... hard to justify for most families. even in today's age of stretching the payments to get the car you want rather than need, it is hard to justify when for 230 biweekly you can get a loaded up gc crew for a year less on payments.

Offline bye

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2016, 08:26:42 pm »
If you have $30K to spend on a people mover, there's other premium brands in play.

I do hope the plug in does well, it's a perfect compliment to a people mover which is generally used for short trips during the week on electricity and then gas on the weekends.

Offline mixmanmash

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2016, 08:58:33 pm »
If you have $30K to spend on a people mover, there's other premium brands in play.

I do hope the plug in does well, it's a perfect compliment to a people mover which is generally used for short trips during the week on electricity and then gas on the weekends.
Yep.  The plugin hybrid would be perfect for me.  I drive about 32km in total daily during the weekdays.  Gas engine for weekends or roadtrips works for me.

Offline dkaz

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2016, 10:58:32 pm »
I'm looking at this more and more. I prefer driving my minivan these days hands down for shuttling the kids around or even going to hockey, it's so much easier to throw my goalie gear into the back than try to squeeze it into the trunk. I just hate the fuel usage.

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2016, 06:32:34 am »
I'm looking at this more and more. I prefer driving my minivan these days hands down for shuttling the kids around or even going to hockey, it's so much easier to throw my goalie gear into the back than try to squeeze it into the trunk. I just hate the fuel usage.

Come on , just take the kids on the bike  ::)

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2016, 04:34:38 pm »
If you have $30K to spend on a people mover, there's other premium brands in play.

I do hope the plug in does well, it's a perfect compliment to a people mover which is generally used for short trips during the week on electricity and then gas on the weekends.

i assume this was towards my comment that most people i get want 30k or under?

what other vehicles 30k or under carry 7 people and are premium? i'm just curious. 30k is hardly into "premium" territory anymore...

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2016, 07:24:41 pm »
meh... still a similar answer in the regular thread! ha!

we've sold one.... whoop dee do!

nice vans... but not all that much interest... we've demo'd 3 to bring down pricing a bit. the people driving them like em.
Really? We have sold every one we have brought in. I don't know the exact number, but it has been a few.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Preview: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2016, 05:27:27 am »
We know the price on this yet?
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