Topic: My FGC ownership - Part 2

[Fobroader]

Do people in Germany complain about FGC ownership?

I recall reading somewhere that one of the reasons there are more FGC reliability issues in North America is because cars are driven to far higher milages here than Europe. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I doubt it's the higher mileage...at least based on what we see on this forum. Lots of low mileage issues. Maybe they export the crappy vehicles for sh!ts and giggles...

didn't we hear from some of the european members of the forum that europeans don't have as high expectations of rocksolid reliability from their cars as we do here?

I have exactly the same expectations, I don't think that is any different across the pond than it is here...

But traditionally speaking, if you grew up with British Leyland products your idea of reliability is already skewed   

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Do people in Germany complain about FGC ownership?

I recall reading somewhere that one of the reasons there are more FGC reliability issues in North America is because cars are driven to far higher milages here than Europe. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I doubt it's the higher mileage...at least based on what we see on this forum. Lots of low mileage issues. Maybe they export the crappy vehicles for sh!ts and giggles...

didn't we hear from some of the european members of the forum that europeans don't have as high expectations of rocksolid reliability from their cars as we do here?

I have exactly the same expectations, I don't think that is any different across the pond than it is here...

But traditionally speaking, if you grew up with British Leyland products your idea of reliability is already skewed   

Oooh Oooh Ooooh.  My parents used to have a BL when I was a kid living in England.  Behold:  The mighty Triumph Acclaim:


70hp, a 3-speed automated manual (no clutch, but a gear stick), and the exhaust fell off when the car was 7 years old.

[Triple Bob]

Do people in Germany complain about FGC ownership?

I recall reading somewhere that one of the reasons there are more FGC reliability issues in North America is because cars are driven to far higher milages here than Europe. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I doubt it's the higher mileage...at least based on what we see on this forum. Lots of low mileage issues. Maybe they export the crappy vehicles for sh!ts and giggles...

didn't we hear from some of the european members of the forum that europeans don't have as high expectations of rocksolid reliability from their cars as we do here?

I have exactly the same expectations, I don't think that is any different across the pond than it is here...

But traditionally speaking, if you grew up with British Leyland products your idea of reliability is already skewed   

 

[tpl]

^^^ I paid my dues to old ready-for-the-scrapyard BL cars.    And even a new BL car, a TR7. Mrs tpl saw it and really wanted it...what a piece of crap that was.

[johngenx]

TR7 might be the worst car ever made.

[Hannibalsmith]

Do people in Germany complain about FGC ownership?

I recall reading somewhere that one of the reasons there are more FGC reliability issues in North America is because cars are driven to far higher milages here than Europe. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I doubt it's the higher mileage...at least based on what we see on this forum. Lots of low mileage issues. Maybe they export the crappy vehicles for sh!ts and giggles...

didn't we hear from some of the european members of the forum that europeans don't have as high expectations of rocksolid reliability from their cars as we do here?

I have exactly the same expectations, I don't think that is any different across the pond than it is here...

But traditionally speaking, if you grew up with British Leyland products your idea of reliability is already skewed   

Oooh Oooh Ooooh.  My parents used to have a BL when I was a kid living in England.  Behold:  The mighty Triumph Acclaim:

70hp, a 3-speed automated manual (no clutch, but a gear stick), and the exhaust fell off when the car was 7 years old.

Looks suspiciously like a 4 door Honda Civic. I think they collaborated, no? Later it was Sterling / Honda Legend. Or were these different firms?

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Do people in Germany complain about FGC ownership?

I recall reading somewhere that one of the reasons there are more FGC reliability issues in North America is because cars are driven to far higher milages here than Europe. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I doubt it's the higher mileage...at least based on what we see on this forum. Lots of low mileage issues. Maybe they export the crappy vehicles for sh!ts and giggles...

didn't we hear from some of the european members of the forum that europeans don't have as high expectations of rocksolid reliability from their cars as we do here?

I have exactly the same expectations, I don't think that is any different across the pond than it is here...

But traditionally speaking, if you grew up with British Leyland products your idea of reliability is already skewed   

Oooh Oooh Ooooh.  My parents used to have a BL when I was a kid living in England.  Behold:  The mighty Triumph Acclaim:

70hp, a 3-speed automated manual (no clutch, but a gear stick), and the exhaust fell off when the car was 7 years old.

Looks suspiciously like a 4 door Honda Civic. I think they collaborated, no? Later it was Sterling / Honda Legend. Or were these different firms?

Yes, It was basically a Honda Ballade, which is basically a Civic.  Instead of being built in Japan, it was built in England by Leyland.

[mmret]

Do people in Germany complain about FGC ownership?

I recall reading somewhere that one of the reasons there are more FGC reliability issues in North America is because cars are driven to far higher milages here than Europe. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I doubt it's the higher mileage...at least based on what we see on this forum. Lots of low mileage issues. Maybe they export the crappy vehicles for sh!ts and giggles...

didn't we hear from some of the european members of the forum that europeans don't have as high expectations of rocksolid reliability from their cars as we do here?

Expectations probably has a lot to do with it.

Well with Italian and French and British cars to compare to, the German stuff looks a hell of a lot better.

Here we compare to Honda / Toyota...different level

[mixmanmash]

Do people in Germany complain about FGC ownership?

I recall reading somewhere that one of the reasons there are more FGC reliability issues in North America is because cars are driven to far higher milages here than Europe. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I doubt it's the higher mileage...at least based on what we see on this forum. Lots of low mileage issues. Maybe they export the crappy vehicles for sh!ts and giggles...

didn't we hear from some of the european members of the forum that europeans don't have as high expectations of rocksolid reliability from their cars as we do here?

Expectations probably has a lot to do with it.

Well with Italian and French and British cars to compare to, the German stuff looks a hell of a lot better.

Here we compare to Honda / Toyota...different level

This.  I'd buy German over French/English/Italian for reliability.

[sailor723]

My earlier experience with Mercedes Benz (70's/80's and early 90's) was that they were extremely reliable. It was only when they started becoming less mechanical and more and more electronic that things started to go badly sideways.

Take my ML. Only one issue has been remotely mechanical. Everything else has involved the electrical system/electronics.

[mixmanmash]

My earlier experience with Mercedes Benz (70's/80's and early 90's) was that they were extremely reliable. It was only when they started becoming less mechanical and more and more electronic that things started to go badly sideways.

Take my ML. Only one issue has been remotely mechanical. Everything else has involved the electrical system/electronics.

This is true of all the German brands IMO.  It's the electronics that are the lions share of the problems.  It's almost like Lucas Electrics has been reborn with the Germans.

[Fobroader]

My earlier experience with Mercedes Benz (70's/80's and early 90's) was that they were extremely reliable. It was only when they started becoming less mechanical and more and more electronic that things started to go badly sideways.

Take my ML. Only one issue has been remotely mechanical. Everything else has involved the electrical system/electronics.

As far back as I can remember ze Germans were a stalwart symbol of quality and reliability, with the introduction of all the fancy gizmos and doodads, now....uh uh......

[mmret]

Maybe Bosch just doesn't understand microelectronics.

[johngenx]

Go back a long ways to the W116, W123, W126, etc, Mercedes, and those things were indestructible tanks.  BUT, even way back then, the electrical bits were their weak points.  Not uncommon to have inoperable radios, electric antennas, etc.  The AC systems sucked - they were unreliable and couldn't blow cold anything like a Big 3 car.  The cruise control systems were usually on the fritz.

But, the rest of the car could last a nuclear war.

One hing that's changed is the pricing.  MB products used to be WAY more expensive.  They were much more exclusive.  Even back in the late 90's, I'd occasionally see another MB driver.  Today, I probably saw 20-30 just on my drive to the gym and back.

[johngenx]

Maybe Bosch just doesn't understand microelectronics.

Bosch parts were the main weak points in MB cars from the 70's on.  Never understood why MB kept buying crap from them.

[Fobroader]

Go back a long ways to the W116, W123, W126, etc, Mercedes, and those things were indestructible tanks.  BUT, even way back then, the electrical bits were their weak points.  Not uncommon to have inoperable radios, electric antennas, etc.  The AC systems sucked - they were unreliable and couldn't blow cold anything like a Big 3 car.  The cruise control systems were usually on the fritz.

But, the rest of the car could last a nuclear war.

One hing that's changed is the pricing.  MB products used to be WAY more expensive.  They were much more exclusive.  Even back in the late 90's, I'd occasionally see another MB driver.  Today, I probably saw 20-30 just on my drive to the gym and back.

Thats the thing, if the cruise doesn't work but the car still starts, no biggie.....now, if the cruise doesn't work, the car won't start.

[Northernridge]

In terms of Mercedes-of-the-moment, I think they rush new electronic features to market and promptly start improving them. My previous gen E Class had a number of features that were were slow and imperfect which were all significantly upgraded in my current car. I think Sailor's ML problems were related to this – those evil sensors of his have been changed now.

[sailor723]

Go back a long ways to the W116, W123, W126, etc, Mercedes, and those things were indestructible tanks.  BUT, even way back then, the electrical bits were their weak points.  Not uncommon to have inoperable radios, electric antennas, etc.  The AC systems sucked - they were unreliable and couldn't blow cold anything like a Big 3 car.  The cruise control systems were usually on the fritz.

But, the rest of the car could last a nuclear war.

One hing that's changed is the pricing.  MB products used to be WAY more expensive.  They were much more exclusive.  Even back in the late 90's, I'd occasionally see another MB driver.  Today, I probably saw 20-30 just on my drive to the gym and back.

I think your pricing point is valid. I once took the price of my mother's last MB (a nicely optioned, but certainly not 'loaded",1993 300E ) and applied the BOC inflation calculator. In today's dollars it was pushing over 90K.

In the 80's I'd hear some MB owners say "yes, it cost twice as much but I'll keep it 6-7 years instead of 3-4"

[Blueprint]

Do people in Germany complain about FGC ownership?

I recall reading somewhere that one of the reasons there are more FGC reliability issues in North America is because cars are driven to far higher milages here than Europe. Not sure if that makes sense though.

I doubt it's the higher mileage...at least based on what we see on this forum. Lots of low mileage issues. Maybe they export the crappy vehicles for sh!ts and giggles...

didn't we hear from some of the european members of the forum that europeans don't have as high expectations of rocksolid reliability from their cars as we do here?

I have exactly the same expectations, I don't think that is any different across the pond than it is here...

But traditionally speaking, if you grew up with British Leyland products your idea of reliability is already skewed   

Oooh Oooh Ooooh.  My parents used to have a BL when I was a kid living in England.  Behold:  The mighty Triumph Acclaim:


70hp, a 3-speed automated manual (no clutch, but a gear stick), and the exhaust fell off when the car was 7 years old.

Same generation Honda Civic my parents had when I started to drive at 16 (13 actually with that car  ). Same 70 hp sewing-machine smooth four, same Hondamatic tranny, but wagon body. It looked like a regular 3-speed auto shifter, but there was no "drive". You had to shift between 1, 2 and "OD". Also had a manual choke - try to explain that to the iPod generation 



Our Civic was exactly like this one, same colour even:

[whaddaiknow]

...
My last Mercedes, FOR SURE.

That was the last thing I said in this thread.
Well, this time I am here not to moan 'n whine but to give credit where credit is due.
After discovering the rip and following Wing's (sorry couldn't resist ) advice, I contacted MB via twitter and got a deal on the replacement. MB covers the part, I pay the labour.
So I had the seat bottom replaced yesterday at Ogilvie Mercedes Benz, and I HAVE to say the experience was a complete opposite to the last one. 
And I ended up paying just over $200 (and the original estimate was closer to $400 which I was willing to pay). I drove away from the dealership knowing I would be back for regular service.
So maybe it's not my last Merc  We shall see. And as I drove away the odometer turned a new page in my car's life by passing the 100,000km mark (pics in another thread).