Topic: Buying a pair of Santa Fe

[Wheelboy]

Hi all.  Next week my daughter and her hubby plan to buy a pair of Hyundai Santa Fe.  They want 2016 Sport 2.0 Limited models, both with AWD and with a Hyundai website price of $43-44,000 per vehicle.  There is a factory rebate of about $3300 on each one.

Does anyone have an opinion of what they might realistically be able to buy those vehicles for?  (using Hyundai finance co which must be revenue for the dealerships too)

I've warned them about the usual scams of theft insurance (Globali etc) and tire nitrogen where most dealers try to get you to believe that those things are mandatory.  A VW dealer let me walk before he would remove those two charges but an e-mail awaited me when I got home saying that they could remove those charges.  Eff 'em, I told them to stuff it.

You'll find this a funny one - I bought a C-class Mercedes and I noticed a charge on the sales bill of about $400 - $600 for a "safety package".  When I asked what it was, the salesman's response was "For locking wheel nuts".  Now some little old lady might not question that but, of course, I did.  He then went on to tell me that it also included "theft protection and insurance (the ol' Globali scam).  I refused to pay and they waived the fee - but they didn't bother removing their expensive locking wheelnuts!  Buyer beware eh?  Is there an honest sales person anywhere?  There sure as heck isn't one at my Benz dealership.

[tooscoops]

i do hear of/know a few honest ones, but it seems like there is a nearly 50% chance you will get either a bad one or one who is not helpful in any way...

on a new car, using the finance isn't a huge profit generator. usually the subvented new deals pay the dealers 100-200 or so per deal, just so business managers can make a living and the added paperwork, etc is paid for. so don't expect that to be a big negotiating point.

hyundai is one who usually advertises sale prices based just off msrp subratct current factory promotions. so there would be a bit of room there, depending on the trim, could be as low as 800, could be a couple grand. no real clue since i can't see those invoices with my systems.

and to go along with your story there, i always remove those fees and our dealership is a total choice style one... when a customer on saturday asked what i was removing, i told her what it was... after my explanation, she excliamed, "why would you take that out? it sounds like a great deal!"... so i put it back in... first car in over a year i charged admin! ha!

[Wheelboy]

i do hear of/know a few honest ones, but it seems like there is a nearly 50% chance you will get either a bad one or one who is not helpful in any way...

on a new car, using the finance isn't a huge profit generator. usually the subvented new deals pay the dealers 100-200 or so per deal, just so business managers can make a living and the added paperwork, etc is paid for. so don't expect that to be a big negotiating point.

hyundai is one who usually advertises sale prices based just off msrp subratct current factory promotions. so there would be a bit of room there, depending on the trim, could be as low as 800, could be a couple grand. no real clue since i can't see those invoices with my systems.

and to go along with your story there, i always remove those fees and our dealership is a total choice style one... when a customer on saturday asked what i was removing, i told her what it was... after my explanation, she excliamed, "why would you take that out? it sounds like a great deal!"... so i put it back in... first car in over a year i charged admin! ha!

Thanks Scoops.  I know you're in car sales so your opinion carries weight.  The current factory incentive is $3300 per car but that would just be a factory generated benefit I assume.  So the kids should expect to get a better deal than that?  What to offer is the conundrum.

[mmret]

I would assume that the invoice is about $3000 to $3500 less than list. You can check with APA or something.

Since you are buying two cars and presumably not troubling the dealer very much with test drives etc I would go figure out what invoice is and leave them a total profit of $1500 on the pair. Skip all the other crap and fees. That should be sufficient to keep them happy but you'll need to be a bit flexible on color prehaps.

[tooscoops]

as a dealer, i would happily take that deal any day. chrysler is a volume based dealership... i believe hyundai is as well, so sales numbers, not profit is what drives the dealership... the salesperson however will always try and hold gross in the deal, but a quick two sales is pretty good, even if they are minimum commission.

for two cars, i'd agree that it is a good idea to go in with as much info as you can. it would be worth it for carcostcanada or whomever to get a solid starting point. at least you should only need to do it once for the benefit of two purchases!

as for the 3300, that is factory rebate (i am assuming by your posts)... the dealership gets that same amount from the factory, so by selling the car at that advertised number, they are still making the same amount they would have by selling the car at full msrp. what you want to get is some dealership discount on top of that. the difference between invoice and msrp is the room they have to "move"... some hard to get cars require to be sold close to msrp, some can be sold a bit below invoice (a grand or so depending)... i would imagine a santa fe will be right in the middle, so anything over invoice is where to start.

[mmret]

some can be sold a bit below invoice (a grand or so depending)...

How's that stuff happen? Bigger dealers get volume discounts behind invoice or sales numbers credits or something?

[Wheelboy]

as a dealer, i would happily take that deal any day. chrysler is a volume based dealership... i believe hyundai is as well, so sales numbers, not profit is what drives the dealership... the salesperson however will always try and hold gross in the deal, but a quick two sales is pretty good, even if they are minimum commission.

That's good to know Scoops.

for two cars, i'd agree that it is a good idea to go in with as much info as you can. it would be worth it for carcostcanada or whomever to get a solid starting point. at least you should only need to do it once for the benefit of two purchases!

I plan on joining the APA today to get their idea of pricing.

as for the 3300, that is factory rebate (i am assuming by your posts)... the dealership gets that same amount from the factory, so by selling the car at that advertised number, they are still making the same amount they would have by selling the car at full msrp. what you want to get is some dealership discount on top of that. the difference between invoice and msrp is the room they have to "move"... some hard to get cars require to be sold close to msrp, some can be sold a bit below invoice (a grand or so depending)... i would imagine a santa fe will be right in the middle, so anything over invoice is where to start.

Yep the $3300 is the factory carrot so we expect that to be the new advertised selling figure with the gap between that and Invoice being the wiggle room.

[Ex-airbalancer]

as a dealer, i would happily take that deal any day. chrysler is a volume based dealership... i believe hyundai is as well, so sales numbers, not profit is what drives the dealership... the salesperson however will always try and hold gross in the deal, but a quick two sales is pretty good, even if they are minimum commission.

for two cars, i'd agree that it is a good idea to go in with as much info as you can. it would be worth it for carcostcanada or whomever to get a solid starting point. at least you should only need to do it once for the benefit of two purchases!

as for the 3300, that is factory rebate (i am assuming by your posts)... the dealership gets that same amount from the factory, so by selling the car at that advertised number, they are still making the same amount they would have by selling the car at full msrp. what you want to get is some dealership discount on top of that. the difference between invoice and msrp is the room they have to "move"... some hard to get cars require to be sold close to msrp, some can be sold a bit below invoice (a grand or so depending)... i would imagine a santa fe will be right in the middle, so anything over invoice is where to start.

You should sell them a couple of GC instead

[tooscoops]

some can be sold a bit below invoice (a grand or so depending)...

How's that stuff happen? Bigger dealers get volume discounts behind invoice or sales numbers credits or something?

sometimes there are incentives that are dealer based, not customer... so a 500 model specific one... plus a holdback given to the dealer to help cover showroom costs... maybe some kind of stairstep for a volume bonus... plus the monthly/yearly target bonuses...

so if they have hit targets and all that on a highly (dealer) incentivized model, they could still make 2k+ at invoice. but then again, some models have no such programs and invoice is the bottom line. also, just to confuse the issue, some cars are just advertised as losses with no hope of them making money, purely to help hit numbers so that the previously mentioned models get *their* bonuses...

convoluted and screwy business model.

[ngorongoro]

The business must be doing good if it can afford to expend $80-85k on vehicles.

 

[safristi]

wot if business CRATERS.... ......

[tooscoops]

The business must be doing good if it can afford to expend $80-85k on vehicles.

true enough... but it's not like the option is 0 or 80... if you need two cars for daily use anyways and are looking new suv, you are going to spend 50 anyways for a basic small one...

[Wheelboy]

I think the kids will be buying their pair of Santa Fe tomorrow and they have already been in to see a salesman who gave them some figures and terminologies which they brought to me last night for my opinion.

The dealer site is advertising "all in Pricing" (which they have to per OMVIC rules) so I asked them what that meant (I know as I have read the OMVIC site).  They weren't sure.

So I called the dealership and asked for a sales person.  I asked him what "all in pricing" was just to hear their squirming explanation.  I could tell the guy didn't have a clue what I was talking about.  He tired to bluff through it.  Fail.  Miserable fail.

I asked to speak with someone else and a young lady came on the phone who admitted she was in sales but fairly new.  "What is all-in pricing?" I asked.  She too didn't have a clue and it was obvious she was hearing the term for the first time.  Fail.  Miserable fail.

I asked to speak with the sales manager and a young fellow came on the phone who explained the whole thing.  When he got to Admin for $600 I asked him what was inside "Admin".  One of the things he hurried over was the term "Walk Away Protection".  I stopped him and asked what that was.  It's a disability insurance thing that pays some (all?) of your car loan if you're disabled.

So these people have the dam gall to hide an insurance (which they just decided to add) within All-In-Pricing>>>>Admin.  If it was SO good for us, why do they hide it?  Why isn't it a listed item on the sales bill?

I wonder what percentage of buyers delve into what's inside All-In-Pricing and Admin?  The figure will be almost zero.  He said they tack on $100 for the insurance
.
At least they don't jack in the Globali "anti theft" scam too.

When I told him that his two previous sales people didn't have a clue that there was a term "All In Pricing" he just about turned himself inside-out with apologies.  I thought OMVIC (the makers of the All In Pricing rule) were the license issuers of sales people?  Don't sales people have to pass a course or test to get a license?  Or is the fox (OMVIC in this case) guarding the henhouse?

No wonder the car sales organization has got to be the slimiest business I can think of.  My apologies if their IS an honest care sales person out there.  If you're out there I've no idea how you stay in business.  How does the sales manager tolerate you?

He was so apologetic that he offered $500 of a sales discounts if I brought my daughter in to buy.  I wonder if that's on top of the $1000 his dealership offered my daughter earlier in the day before my trial-balloon call last night?  We'll find out as she's going to tell him who was at the other end of the "All In Pricing" question last night.  I'd love to be there when she does.

[HeliDriver]

All-in pricing just means they can't sell the car for more than they advertise it at. It doesn't mean that the advertised price can't include a bunch of sketchy add-ons that you may not want.

And, BTW, Santa Fes aren't like elk, moose, or fish.

[Wheelboy]

All-in pricing just means they can't sell the car for more than they advertise it at. It doesn't mean that the advertised price can't include a bunch of sketchy add-ons that you may not want.

Of that fact I am QUITE aware.  I just wanted to see what the sketchy add-ons-du-jour were.  Knowledge is power.

I wonder why OMVIC allows them to hide their sketchy add-ons that most little old ladies (or old men or young people) will never know of or ask about?  Methinks OMVIC is in bed with the dealers' association.  They want to appear they're doing something for the consumer when really, they aren't.