Topic: Comparison Test: Five compact CUVs

[nlm]

I don't think there's any shortage of "off-road" places anywhere, and I would think there must be a skid pad facility in Eastern Canada.  Or at least a big gravel field or parking lot.

Really? I don't consider a big gravel field or parking lot of be off-road (and I don't think many off-roaders do either). What exactly are you trying to 'test' here?

I can see that you really love your GV but there is more to off-roading that just gear ratios. Tires (and terrain), clearance, attack/departure angles, and suspension I would say are even more significant than the ability to have more torque multiplied (lower ratio). The logisitics for this CUV test precluded even a generic uniform all-season/winter tire fitting and we saw from the Truck Challenge the difficulties with trying to provide a test off the beaten path.

All things being equal though, of this group I think it's safe to say that the GV or previous gen Sportage would perform best off-road. Maybe Mustachio can get such a test set-up by the end of the week though to verify that statement.

[nlm]

But aren't they always?!?   That group appears destined to live in perpetual disappointment, at least in North America...

True, it is very stressful being in this group. 

[Mustachio]

All things being equal though, of this group I think it's safe to say that the GV or previous gen Sportage would perform best off-road. Maybe Mustachio can get such a test set-up by the end of the week though to verify that statement.

Lol...what a sensitive bunch...considering I don't work in the industry, no I can't get such a test set up by the end of the week. Bet Car and Driver could though...

[X-Traction]

I don't think there's any shortage of "off-road" places anywhere, and I would think there must be a skid pad facility in Eastern Canada.  Or at least a big gravel field or parking lot.

Really? I don't consider a big gravel field or parking lot of be off-road (and I don't think many off-roaders do either). What exactly are you trying to 'test' here?

I can see that you really love your GV but there is more to off-roading that just gear ratios. Tires (and terrain), clearance, attack/departure angles, and suspension I would say are even more significant than the ability to have more torque multiplied (lower ratio). The logisitics for this CUV test precluded even a generic uniform all-season/winter tire fitting and we saw from the Truck Challenge the difficulties with trying to provide a test off the beaten path.

All things being equal though, of this group I think it's safe to say that the GV or previous gen Sportage would perform best off-road. Maybe Mustachio can get such a test set-up by the end of the week though to verify that statement.

I agree that "off-roading" is not the best term to describe what we're getting at.   Even specialized "off-road" vehicles are seldom used off roads.  And thank goodness for that.  It's sort of like trying to define what "wilderness" is.  Despite having a better term, I think we all know what we're talking about.

Doing accident-avoidance tests on loose gravel would usefully mimic the handling characteristics on snow and ice.   You could put some logs on a parking lot and see how the various cuv's could get over them.  Just dong 0-100 kph tests on gravel would say a lot.

I'm not sure the Sportage, at least as sold in North America, ever had a low range.  It's not nearly as large as the current Grand Vitara, and from what I understand, the quality level doesn't compare.

As for "loving" my GV, I'd never thought of that.  I appreciate it's characteristics relative to what I want/need in a vehicle, but I certainly don't "love" it.  The idea is kind of icky.

[X-Traction]

^^^ timely response.  I think you are really going to like my Grand Vitara review on wednesday.

Curious to see if the GV has improved over the last 4-5 years because when I was looking at one back in 2006, I was not impressed. Felt and drove like it weight 4 tons, rear seats were horrible, and interior layout was just odd. I didn't consider it very long.

In the meantime among other things, they have changed the engines around, greatly improved the NHV, raised the standard features and revised the rear suspension.  I've also heard they did away with the AWD feature of the center differential to rely on the ABS/ESP, but I haven't seen enough verification of that.

Edit: and changed the rear drums to disc brakes.

I trust no one who wants a sports car will be shopping for one.  It may seem slow to some, but it is very nimble when "off-roading", parking etc..  We have never failed to get up a steep hill due to insufficient power.  We have never bottomed out the suspension, while I have done so even with a first-generation Pathfinder.

By coincidence, just yesterday a 5-11 185lb adult who'd never sat in the back of our GV got in the back and commented on how roomy and comfortable the back seat was (with reclining seatbacks in the rear).  We do find the leather seats too hard, though, and I kind of resent that the North American spec lacks the rear seat armrest provided in other markets.  I added sound insulation years ago to make our '06 quieter inside.

[X-Traction]

If you actually put any of these CUVs into an offroad park, the manufacturers would be pissed when you gave them the cars back with a lot of dents and underbody pieces missing. Short of a snowy parking lot, these cars would be in over their heads in actual offroad situations.

I'm curious to know what you mean by "offroad".  After 6 years of difficult backroad driving with our GV, the total damage besides scratches is: damaged plastic so-called "skid plates", damaged a/c rad fins (from packed snow pushing through the lower grille), bent rear hold-down loop (from pulling a 6500lb crew cab 4x4 pickup out of a snowy ditch) and a mudflap that got torn off.

This driving has included dozens and dozens of shared experiences with other cuv's, Subarus, pickups etc, so we know exactly how the GV stacks up.  For instance, an off-road equipped Patriot is as good on dry gravel, ditches etc, but not as good in snow and on ice.  All you need is an increasingly steep hill to test for traction.  I'd argue that going so far as damaging the vehicles to compare them is unfair, people want to know what they can do without damaging them.

When the current GV was introduced back in late '05, Suzuki gave a convoy of them to automotive journalists to test "off-road" near Whistler BC.  While this wasn't a really tough test, I don't see Rav4 etc. introductions doing anything similar.

http://www.johnscotti.com/en/road-tests/2006-suzuki-grand-vitara-road-trail-test/48926/?artid=48926&pg=7
http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2006-suzuki-grand-vitara

[Ex-airbalancer]

If you actually put any of these CUVs into an offroad park, the manufacturers would be pissed when you gave them the cars back with a lot of dents and underbody pieces missing. Short of a snowy parking lot, these cars would be in over their heads in actual offroad situations.

Exactly, you need permission from manufacturers to take their vehicles truly off-roading.  As well, skid-pads/tracks/strips etc are not open all year round and cost money.  More money than can be spent on a single automotive article.

Besides, who cares... CUVs aren't used for off-roading, and they all have sufficiently good AWD systems that will fit the needs of 99.999999% of those in the market for a high-off-the-ground-compact car. Would I have prefered the Subaru AWD system in my Sportage? Of course, I'm not stupid. But did that stop me from buying the Sportage and its 99%/1% system until slippage is detected? Of course not. Has that less-than-ideal system prevented me from getting anywhere even in the biggest of snow storms? Nope.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Jaeger

Wow, I think people from Oakville were allowed to think 

[Jaeger]

If you actually put any of these CUVs into an offroad park, the manufacturers would be pissed when you gave them the cars back with a lot of dents and underbody pieces missing. Short of a snowy parking lot, these cars would be in over their heads in actual offroad situations.

Exactly, you need permission from manufacturers to take their vehicles truly off-roading.  As well, skid-pads/tracks/strips etc are not open all year round and cost money.  More money than can be spent on a single automotive article.

Besides, who cares... CUVs aren't used for off-roading, and they all have sufficiently good AWD systems that will fit the needs of 99.999999% of those in the market for a high-off-the-ground-compact car. Would I have prefered the Subaru AWD system in my Sportage? Of course, I'm not stupid. But did that stop me from buying the Sportage and its 99%/1% system until slippage is detected? Of course not. Has that less-than-ideal system prevented me from getting anywhere even in the biggest of snow storms? Nope.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Jaeger

Wow, I think people from Oakville were allowed to think 

Allowed?  heck, we're obliged to think - gott make up for all the midless riff raff out there. 

[Pars]

I'm tired of seeing comparison test in which the CRV comes out ahead. I didn't need to read this article to know CRV would take first place. No surprised there, this comparison has been done many times throughout this year and and the CRV always wins, thanks for the unnecessary reminder.

Also, what's all this about summer and winter tire.. why would you give preference to all season summer tires when I live in Canada and there's a foot of snow on my lawn. I want to know how these vehicle drives in the snow, not how sharp it can turn-in in a nice dry pavement. Why didn't u guys take these vehicle out in the snow and do a real test? Another Also, when are you guys gonna add the 2013 Rav4 into these comparison test. Hopefully not the end of next year, cause i'm sure that the new (2013) RAV4 is going to knock the CRV off it's thrown.

Pars

[Black Hatch]

I'm tired of seeing comparison test in which the CRV comes out ahead. I didn't need to read this article to know CRV would take first place. No surprised there, this comparison has been done many times throughout this year and and the CRV always wins, thanks for the unnecessary reminder.

Also, what's all this about summer and winter tire.. why would you give preference to all season summer tires when I live in Canada and there's a foot of snow on my lawn. I want to know how these vehicle drives in the snow, not how sharp it can turn-in in a nice dry pavement. Why didn't u guys take these vehicle out in the snow and do a real test? Another Also, when are you guys gonna add the 2013 Rav4 into these comparison test. Hopefully not the end of next year, cause i'm sure that the new (2013) RAV4 is going to knock the CRV off it's thrown.

Pars

The CR-V wins because the CR-V is built in Canada
(at least thats what Jil McIntosh partly says in wheels.ca)
http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/best-cuv-under-35000-honda-cr-v/

and many here seem to favour cars built in Canada...

The  standard heated seats and rear-view monitor on all models helps as well.

[safristi]

Hey Mike when are we seeing that Golf Wagon review?  Can't get enough wagons on this site! 


From the "Not-mythical-but-still-apparently-very-rare-manual-transmission-wagon-fanclub"

The "Diesel" subchapter of the NMBSAVRMTWF will be especially excited for your review, though the "AWD" subchapter will once again be disappointed. C'est la vie.

 .

I would expect in the next month.  I have a backlog of reviews to go out first - Grant Vitara, Forester, TSX 4-pot, Accord, then Golf TDI.    No manual either

 "GRANT VITARA?".......does it come with Freudian slip covers..........

[jyarkony]

I'm tired of seeing comparison test in which the CRV comes out ahead. I didn't need to read this article to know CRV would take first place. No surprised there, this comparison has been done many times throughout this year and and the CRV always wins, thanks for the unnecessary reminder.

Also, what's all this about summer and winter tire.. why would you give preference to all season summer tires when I live in Canada and there's a foot of snow on my lawn. I want to know how these vehicle drives in the snow, not how sharp it can turn-in in a nice dry pavement. Why didn't u guys take these vehicle out in the snow and do a real test? Another Also, when are you guys gonna add the 2013 Rav4 into these comparison test. Hopefully not the end of next year, cause i'm sure that the new (2013) RAV4 is going to knock the CRV off it's thrown.

Pars

The CR-V wins because the CR-V is built in Canada
(at least thats what Jil McIntosh partly says in wheels.ca)
http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/best-cuv-under-35000-honda-cr-v/

and many here seem to favour cars built in Canada...

The  standard heated seats and rear-view monitor on all models helps as well.

Oops, I guess they forgot to send us the memo:

http://www.autos.ca/car-comparisons/comparison-test-compact-crossovers-round-two/

And I'm sure it's winning all those other comparisons has nothing to do with it being an excellent vehicle. That would be just plain silly...

We hope to get a RAV4 as soon as one becomes available, and we have a long-term CR-V on fleet, so it is ready and waiting for a grudge match with the RAV4!

[Black Hatch]

We hope to get a RAV4 as soon as one becomes available, and we have a long-term CR-V on fleet, so it is ready and waiting for a grudge match with the RAV4!

How about a new CR-V grudge match with the CX-5; this time with the new skyactiv 2.5?

[jyarkony]

We hope to get a RAV4 as soon as one becomes available, and we have a long-term CR-V on fleet, so it is ready and waiting for a grudge match with the RAV4!

How about a new CR-V grudge match with the CX-5; this time with the new skyactiv 2.5?

The CX-5 can wait for the Outlander and Forester to all be out - I want to do a head-to-head between the two bestselling Canadian-built crossovers that have defined the segment for almost forever.