Topic: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires

[Fobroader]

In the case of the TT-RS, I was  when I looked at the lease rates on Audi's web site.  They've made it so that anyone wanting one either buys it, or pays a stupid amount for leasing.

They DO NOT want them back...

Really, its cheaper to finance then lease....thats a first. Or maybe they know how these cars will be driven and they know better 

[Jaeger]

Ok, Ill be the whipping boy today, domestics suck, Toyota has made the best cars in the universe bar none, Subaru can do no wrong, everything should come with diesels and winter tires.....did I get everything???   

Nope - you forgot that everything sucks but Hyundai. 

I don't do winter driving without winter rubber.  It took owning my first (and only) rwd car to convince me - but I've carried it forward.  I've been caught out in seriously bad conditions on the highway only a couple of times - but any one of those times makes the effort and expense worthwhile.

[dirtyjeffer]

i've never had a problem driving in the winter, but after having winter tires on my last couple of cars, i won't go without them any more...my insurance company also gives a 5% discount for using winter tires, so the money saved on insurance helps cover some of the cost.

here's a video link to demonstrate what was done here (this is 2+ years old now):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2wTg0l3_wI

[S. Aureus]

Separate dedicated sets of summer and winter tires on their own rims is the cheapest and safest solution in the long run.

Here are some very good tests of winter tires:

http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=125807&SECTION_ID=7096
http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=125452&SECTION_ID=7083

Even if you don't read in Russian, Google Chrome has an automatic translation functionality.

[Brig]

Nope - you forgot that everything sucks but Hyundai. 

Yeah!  Our gas mileage is awesome!*

*When compared to a Hummer.

[Black Hatch]

After bashing GM and importing diesels, this is the most replayed theme on autos.ca.

We need new topic: Winter Tires vs. Summer Tires

Tried summer on light snow; not doing that again.

[X-Traction]

It would have been nice if the comparison included all-weather tires.  Maybe if all-weather tires were promoted more, people who just can't be convinced to use snow tires would at least use all-weathers.

I also suspect a lot of people with suv's lose control in slippery conditions on corners because they think they'll have better traction if they lock the center differential.

[huota]

There's no substitute for traction when the going gets tough. It's baffling that some people living in a winterland can't admit to the benefits of winter tires. I can't imagine driving in the winter without proper winters, I'm not that suicidal yet. I also don't go outside without a winter coat in -20C. It's just common sense.

[Ace]

Anybody know which tire company came up with the "ALL SEASON" name or category. My bet is Good Year .

[Fobroader]

Anybody know which tire company came up with the "ALL SEASON" name or category. My bet is Good Year .

Some marketing clown from a climate with no snow!!!!!

Sent from my Galaxy S3

[blur911]

In traffic, I drive very carefully, using my AWD, Blizzaks, etc as a buffer to compensate for morons like this mornings BMW driver.  I had no trouble stopping in time and maneuvering around him.

But, if the road is empty, I tend to boot it!  Hanging the tail out, opposite lock around bends, crashing through drifts, and so on.  On my way home, there is a new road that has barely any traffic, but is four lanes and divided with no level crossings.  The right lane has drifted snow, so of course, I didn't use the left one.  There's also a sweeping right hand bend marked for 60, so of course, I took it at 100, sideways.

The Forester is like a snow-use drift-car.  Get your foot into it, and it can be launched into a steady-state oversteering condition that is wonderfully controlled thanks to the front tires also scratching for traction.

That is my winter driving habit as well.  Deserted snow covered roads,  AWD goodness and winter tires = fun.

[me_2]

Its the same here around Edmonton, today on the highway, there was easily a dozen cars in the ditch.....90% were 4x4 suvs/trucks. I think the main part is education, people dont understand how much a good tire helps you in the winter, yeah, traction control will help you leave an icy intersection in your 4x4 but wont help you worth a damn to stop. I think Quebec did it right with the whole mandatory snow tire law, it would be great to see it out here. For all the new cars on the road, whats another $1000-1500 when youre talking about $40000+ vehicle?? Id make it a law that every new car sold came with snow tires from the dealer.

All / 4 (at best 3) seasons tire is a myth, there is no such thing to perform an all road / weather & temperature conditions. Even winter tire should be break down to specialized selection of deep snow or icy road condition "performer" tires. Finally, our own personal favorite selection between snow or ice tires, should be governed by the most present one in our area.

When winter tires became mandatory here in Quebec few years ago, a quite of few were mad but most comply with the law, as we did for seat belt few decade before.

Someone already bring the point about % saving incentive from insurance cie could be a good starting point. Do car insurers publish data how much wreck cars without appropriate tires cost to them?

Btw, the car insurance damage stuff remains to be private (lucrative) business core, only personal / physical injuries are government related.

So, since winter is almost here, time has come to buy brand newUltra-Low Rolling Resistance Nokian Hakkapeliitta+R & steel rims & TPMS ($$$$ ouch !!) for my Volt.
http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=11949&group=1.01&name=Nokian+Hakkapeliitta+R

Last Edit: changed picture

[Northernridge]

Its the same here around Edmonton, today on the highway, there was easily a dozen cars in the ditch.....90% were 4x4 suvs/trucks. I think the main part is education, people dont understand how much a good tire helps you in the winter, yeah, traction control will help you leave an icy intersection in your 4x4 but wont help you worth a damn to stop. I think Quebec did it right with the whole mandatory snow tire law, it would be great to see it out here. For all the new cars on the road, whats another $1000-1500 when youre talking about $40000+ vehicle?? Id make it a law that every new car sold came with snow tires from the dealer.

All / 4 (at best 3) seasons tire is a myth, there is no such thing to perform an all road / weather & temperature conditions. Even winter tire should be break down to specialized selection of deep snow or icy road condition "performer" tires. Finally, our own personal favorite selection between snow or ice tires, should be governed by the most present one in our area.

When winter tires became mandatory here in Quebec few years ago, a quite of few were mad but most comply with the law, as we did for seat belt few decade before.

Someone already bring the point about % saving incentive from insurance cie could be a good starting point. Do car insurers publish data how much wreck cars without appropriate tires cost to them?

Btw, the car insurance damage stuff remains to be private (lucrative) business core, only personal / physical injuries are government related.

So, since winter is almost here, time has come to buy brand newUltra-Low Rolling Resistance Nokian Hakkapeliitta+R & steel rims & TPMS ($$$$ ouch !!) for my Volt.
http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=11949&group=1.01&name=Nokian+Hakkapeliitta+R

So, what is the compromise with low rolling resistance tires anyway? Are they a harder compound...is it ride...noise...handling or what?

[me_2]

So far, no snow condition to tell but I consider them basically as "ice" tires. I'm a suburban commuter for most of my driving routine.

The Nolian Haka.. +R low rolling resistance (same for Michelin i3-Xice) benefit is on dry road, electric range is almost the same and quite silent too, they have much better grip on wet pavement compared to the OEM, and they performed well on icy / slippery road surface. They seem to me being built as a good compromise between low temperature operation & low resistance on dry road. So far, so good!

ps: The only difference with the 3 seasons OEM is maybe the handling / cornering but nothing serious, slightly noticeable...

[mixmanmash]

A new BMW X5 went sideways onto the median in front of me this morning, ending up highsided on the berm. Could see his fancy wheels and summer tires clear as day as I crept by. $70K SUV and the twit can't pop for snows?  Maybe legislation is needed.

Yeah, just legislate. The last few snowfalls have been a mess driving in Edmonton. I'm old enough to remember all the handwringing about making wearing seat belts mandatory, then once it went through you hardly heard a peep.

Agreed.  That and once the roads are clear and obviously dry, people still have the need to go 20-30 km/h under the limit.  Takes forever to get around anywhere.

[dirtyjeffer]

I used to run Dunlop Graspics and then switched to Blizzak ws-69. The blizzaks were definitely better on ice for the first season (8k km max). After that they starting sliding around.
I swapped them out for cheap winters again this year. We'll see how it goes.

WS69?

i have heard of WS60 and the WS70, but not WS69...is that a typo?

[X-Traction]

All / 4 (at best 3) seasons tire is a myth, there is no such thing to perform an all road / weather & temperature conditions. Even winter tire should be break down to specialized selection of deep snow or icy road condition "performer" tires.

As evidenced by tires used for Formula 1, the best tire for dry pavement traction is a slick, while tires for wet conditions have more/deeper tread depending on the application.  It could not be more plain that every tire design is a compromise between perhaps 15 considerations.

On the other hand, should people in the southern US own a set of winter tires because it snows there now and then?  Or would even all-seasons be overkill for them?

[canuckystan]

I imagine winter tires offer some benefit (I'm in Vancouver and I don't bother for the few to no days of snow per year) and have never had a problem with a quality set of all-seasons.

The Quebec experience shows that mandating EVERYONE to buy winter tires (which is what, around $1000 all in?) prevented 575 traffic accident injuries per year.  Given the millions of drivers in Quebec traveling hundreds of millions of kms per year, to me, that is not a slam dunk argument to legislate them.  I'll bet the Quebec government did not consider other measures to compel people to spend money to save lives on the road.  For example, I bet forcing people to do basic car maintenance (brakes, lights, and so on) for the same price would save a lot more injuries/lives per year than the snow tires.

There are benefits, but there are dangers on jumping on the bandwagon and concluding they will make some massive difference in injuries/insurance per year. 

Rough numbers here: about 4 million drivers in Quebec.  Let's say an average of $800 (on the low side) to shod the car with snow tires every 4 years.  That's a forced spend on the population of about $3.2 BILLION every 4 years.  To save 575 injuries per year.  I suspect that money could be better spent and save more lives if it were used for something other than snow tires. 

If you're going to legislate for safety, better to get the most bang for the buck.

Here is the Quebec research link: http://www.autonet.ca/auto-news/winter-driving/2011/11/23/winter-safety/

[tortoise]

That' s all well and good but before the legislation was passed 90% of the cars already wore winter tires. 

So by changing the tires on 10% of the car 575 injuries were reduced.  That seems pretty significant.

[pi314]

I imagine winter tires offer some benefit (I'm in Vancouver and I don't bother for the few to no days of snow per year) and have never had a problem with a quality set of all-seasons.

The Quebec experience shows that mandating EVERYONE to buy winter tires (which is what, around $1000 all in?) prevented 575 traffic accident injuries per year.  Given the millions of drivers in Quebec traveling hundreds of millions of kms per year, to me, that is not a slam dunk argument to legislate them.  I'll bet the Quebec government did not consider other measures to compel people to spend money to save lives on the road.  For example, I bet forcing people to do basic car maintenance (brakes, lights, and so on) for the same price would save a lot more injuries/lives per year than the snow tires.

There are benefits, but there are dangers on jumping on the bandwagon and concluding they will make some massive difference in injuries/insurance per year. 

Rough numbers here: about 4 million drivers in Quebec.  Let's say an average of $800 (on the low side) to shod the car with snow tires every 4 years.  That's a forced spend on the population of about $3.2 BILLION every 4 years.  To save 575 injuries per year.  I suspect that money could be better spent and save more lives if it were used for something other than snow tires. 

If you're going to legislate for safety, better to get the most bang for the buck.

I doubt you could say it's that high; It reduces wear on the all season/summer tires so really it's the cost of rims and/or changeovers, and a slight bit more presumably for extra wear