Topic: Anybody here using winter/snow tires all year?

[safristi]

NO I use my Winters if FALL and Spring and Summers  In Winter and Summer...... ..I`m TYRELEXIC

[Rupert]

    If you no longer drive long distance...and I am thinking most retired folk do not; then winter tires only might makes sense. Have them fitted to the car when bought. I only drive around 6000km/yr. now, if that and storing tires might be a pain if you have no garage. Winters drive OK in summer don't they? Probably a nice cushy and silent ride if Michelin X3 ice. with the softer sidewalls. Even better with a smaller dia. rim. Makes you cringe when you see them on 100F pavement though.

[Bulkley]

Tire Rack has a lovely chart labeled "Crossover/SUV Touring All-Season."   Note the tire on top.

tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=CSTAS&affiliate=HK5

How much of Tire Rack's ratings are the result of actual testing and how much from customer feedback?

One place I like to check is PMC Tire because it's Canadian.  pmctire.com/en/ 

Europeans do a better job of actually testing tires.  For example: All-season tyres test 2015/2016: top all-weather tyres tested.   autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/92863/all-season-tyres-test-20152016-top-all-weather-tyres-tested

Note that they removed the Nokian after it was revealed that Nokian cheats.  The Nokian tyre  was their Weatherproof which looks pretty good but, as near as I can tell, it's not available in North America.  Worse, most of the tyres tested are not available here. 

[HeliDriver]

^^ Those Tire Rack charts are purely based on customer surveys.

Tire Rack does do their own testing as well, but you have to look under Tire Tests for those results.

On a side note, I was on the Tire Rack site the other day and came across this: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=210&to_desktop=true

Was interesting that an all-season tire without the Mountain & Snowflake tested better on snow than an All-Terrain, most sizes of which do carry the Mountain & Snowflake. Goes to show that the Mountain & Snowflake designation means little, and that for someone who can't/won't use dedicated winter tires, it's probably worth considering a decent all-season.

[SKYMTL]

Coming from Quebec, here is what I see happening. 

After the government mandated that all cars have winter tires installed between December 15 and March 15, everyone rushed to buy an approved set.  Great stuff. 

HOWEVER, there was no law that said those same soft winter tires had to be REMOVED between March 16 and December 14.  This has caused people to use their winter tires all year round.

This is now having a cyclically negative effect upon the number of accidents that are happening....in the winter.  Why?  Because due to their year-round use those winter tires are now balder than Patrick Stewart and have about the same amount of traction on ice & snow as a piece of margarine sitting on a hot T-Fal pan.   

I would argue that you would actually save money by having two sets of tires (one for winter and one for summer) than running on winters all year round provided you care one lick about your safety.  IMO of course.... 

[safristi]

well who wants Snowflakes testing our  rubber...........

[Bulkley]

Was interesting that an all-season tire without the Mountain & Snowflake tested better on snow than an All-Terrain, most sizes of which do carry the Mountain & Snowflake. Goes to show that the Mountain & Snowflake designation means little, and that for someone who can't/won't use dedicated winter tires, it's probably worth considering a decent all-season.

That explains why we see so many big pickups fishtailing in the snow.  They scare me when they do that at 120+kph on the Okanagan Connector and Coquihalla Pass.  We see lots of them upside down.  Idiots don't learn. 

Yes, the snowflake symbol and the M+S designation are loose terms.  I had a car which came with dealer tires labeled M+S in Canada but sold as summer tyres in England. 

My present car, an Outlander, came second hand with the original A/S Dunlop Grandtrek ST20's.  They were worn down to 6+mm and terribly under-inflated.    Since we bought the car mid winter we decided to brave it out and replace them in the fall.  The times I had them in the snow they never slipped.  In fact they behaved better than some dedicated snow's I've had.  They really made me wonder about the validity of the commercial hype. 

[HeliDriver]

Was interesting that an all-season tire without the Mountain & Snowflake tested better on snow than an All-Terrain, most sizes of which do carry the Mountain & Snowflake. Goes to show that the Mountain & Snowflake designation means little, and that for someone who can't/won't use dedicated winter tires, it's probably worth considering a decent all-season.

That explains why we see so many big pickups fishtailing in the snow.  They scare me when they do that at 120+kph on the Okanagan Connector and Coquihalla Pass.  We see lots of them upside down.  Idiots don't learn. 

Yes, the snowflake symbol and the M+S designation are loose terms.  I had a car which came with dealer tires labeled M+S in Canada but sold as summer tyres in England. 

My present car, an Outlander, came second hand with the original A/S Dunlop Grandtrek ST20's.  They were worn down to 6+mm and terribly under-inflated.    Since we bought the car mid winter we decided to brave it out and replace them in the fall.  The times I had them in the snow they never slipped.  In fact they behaved better than some dedicated snow's I've had.  They really made me wonder about the validity of the commercial hype.

I've also had some dedicated winter tires (from a Korean manufacturer) that were worse in winter than the all-seasons we ran the rest of the year. And I've also driven company trucks with Duratracs and BFG K/Os (All-Terrains with Mountain & Snowflake symbol) that were only so-so in winter conditions.

It's not so much that winter tires are "commercial hype," just that you need to do more than look for the Mountain & Snowflake to find proper ones.

[johngenx]

The General Grabber AT2 tires on the Highlander are snowflake rated and they're not nearly as winter capable as my dedicated winter tires.  That said, they're good enough to get through shoulder season weather events.  I wouldn't run them all winter though.

[Rupert]

   Is there any report saying that Michelin X ice tires would not perform satisfactory in summer use? They ride nice and are quiet and one supposes that the grip is just as good. Certainly wear would be more but if only 10,000km per year...half of it in winter...probably last the life of your ownership. Having two sets of tires is a pain and not a bit ecological.

[Trainman]

The General Grabber AT2 tires on the Highlander are snowflake rated and they're not nearly as winter capable as my dedicated winter tires.  That said, they're good enough to get through shoulder season weather events.  I wouldn't run them all winter though.

I had the AT2's on my '09 Forester and found that the winter performance dropped off significantly around the -10/-15 temperature, so ran dedicated winters.  Not a great winter tire, but an awesome 3 season tire if you need to get off-road at all. 

[ltruong]

For both my vehicles I have all season for most of the year and winter tires for couples months.  They're all are on separate sets of rims so I can change them myself. Usually the winter goes on Nov/Dec  and gets off March/April.  Winter has been pretty mild here last 2 seasons.

[HeliDriver]

   Is there any report saying that Michelin X ice tires would not perform satisfactory in summer use? They ride nice and are quiet and one supposes that the grip is just as good. Certainly wear would be more but if only 10,000km per year...half of it in winter...probably last the life of your ownership. Having two sets of tires is a pain and not a bit ecological.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Winter+tires+dangerous+warmer+weather/9809396/story.html

[Bulkley]

What is interesting is that some all season tires do reasonably well in snow and on ice.  Check this Tire Rack listing.    One has to be very careful searching to get tested facts; the personal experience stuff is dubious. 

[Trainman]

What is interesting is that some all season tires do reasonably well in snow and on ice.  Check this Tire Rack listing.    One has to be very careful searching to get tested facts; the personal experience stuff is dubious.

And can be highly subjective, and variable due to different tire sizes/compounds.  Those AT2's that John and I mention are probably different sizes; in fact mine although pinned for studs did not have the snowflake symbol while other sizes of that same tire do.

Unfortunately the Tire Rack comparison of the LTX is against other all-seasons, and is not put into context of winter/all-weather tires.  I looked long and hard at those for my XT this winter, but their lack of snowflake rating and no tested facts against winter tires leads me away from them, at least this time.

[Rupert]

   I think that this subject is becoming way over technical for the average Joe. Now you have to throw your 50% worn tires away. (thanks for the lead) It's all becoming a bit daft IMO. Maybe some actual data numbers would be nice to have instead of just words....marbling...longer distances to stop for winters in summer...bad handling in rain. It's all a bit too much.

[HeliDriver]

   I think that this subject is becoming way over technical for the average Joe. Now you have to throw your 50% worn tires away. (thanks for the lead) It's all becoming a bit daft IMO. Maybe some actual data numbers would be nice to have instead of just words....marbling...longer distances to stop for winters in summer...bad handling in rain. It's all a bit too much.

https://www.caaquebec.com/fileadmin/documents/PDF/Sur_la_route/Securite_routiere/Pneus_dhiver_en_ETE_Version_finale_Septembre_2008ABANG.pdf

[HeliDriver]

What is interesting is that some all season tires do reasonably well in snow and on ice.  Check this Tire Rack listing.    One has to be very careful searching to get tested facts; the personal experience stuff is dubious.

Written by people who use all seasons in winter. 'Nuff said. 

Probably the same people who say things like All Seasons are fine if you "drive for conditions". IE: 10 km/h............

I assumed he was referring to the actual test: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=203

[Bulkley]

   I think that this subject is becoming way over technical for the average Joe. Now you have to throw your 50% worn tires away. (thanks for the lead) It's all becoming a bit daft IMO. Maybe some actual data numbers would be nice to have instead of just words....marbling...longer distances to stop for winters in summer...bad handling in rain. It's all a bit too much.

Agreed.  There is too much advertising hype and subjective variance.  It is difficult to find provable facts. 

  Unfortunately the Tire Rack comparison of the LTX is against other all-seasons, and is not put into context of winter/all-weather tires.

That's exactly what worries me.  Also, that tire has only 8.5/32 depth which is about 7 mm which looks to me like about time to trade them in.  What's with that?  I've never found a good explanation.

@ HeliDriver - Thanks for the link to STUDY ON THE EFFECTIVENESS OF WINTER TIRES IN SUMMER.  That looks to be good info.

Written by people who use all seasons in winter.

Yes but that can be awfully tempting.  While we get snow here in the Okanagan this is almost a desert.  The snow that lands in my drive is light and fluffy like angel dust, not that mashed potatoes that comes down in wetter climates.  Last winter I didn't drive more than a total of 10 hours on actual snow or ice.  A set of winter tires is awfully expensive for ten hours. 

My big problem is Coquihalla Pass combined with the Okanagan Connector or the alternate over Allison Pass.  Those mountain passes are where we meet the snow and our grand children are on the other side.  Consequently, I may be looking at a set of Nokian WRG3 SUV or equivalent. 

[Rupert]

Neither of the tests just mentioned name the tire brand and designation. Why?