Topic: Upside Down Major

[Gurgie]

had a good'un...

old liberty was worth maybe 2-3k... no big deal. she said she still owed some money... a bit of a surprise, but couldn't be much... right?... she thought it over and said sadly... "i think i still owe close to 10"....

well, not great, but lets give em a call and find out! maybe we'll get lucky...


..... got the accurate number.... 19800 owing.

 

[tooscoops]

yep... and the bills are getting too much for her to keep up the payments on it... which she had a co-signer for... who doesn't want to do any more co-signing...

plus, she wanted a 2 door wrangler...

...she has 2 kids in car seats. that is 100% going to be a case where i see her in a year needing to get a bigger car. she wouldn't let me talk her into a 4 door.

i guess i don't need to worry about what car she wanted anyway now!

[aquadorhj]

hey tooscoops, neils, arcticsteve, all sales people, i guess.


what is the typical demographic for this major upside downs?   
i know they come from all walks of life, but % wise, who has the biggest slice?

old, young, middleage?
college educated, highschool educated, dropouts? 
woman, man, others?
kids, no kids?
jobs, no jobs?

curious.

[Solstice2006]

hey tooscoops, neils, arcticsteve, all sales people, i guess.


what is the typical demographic for this major upside downs?   
i know they come from all walks of life, but % wise, who has the biggest slice?

old, young, middleage?
college educated, highschool educated, dropouts? 
woman, man, others?
kids, no kids?
jobs, no jobs?

curious.

how is a salesman supposed to know whether I am a dropout?  Or I am an engineer?  When I buying the cars, I didn't take my kids with me.  And I certainly don't tell them what I do for a living. 

[Firm]

hey tooscoops, neils, arcticsteve, all sales people, i guess.


what is the typical demographic for this major upside downs?   
i know they come from all walks of life, but % wise, who has the biggest slice?

old, young, middleage?
college educated, highschool educated, dropouts? 
woman, man, others?
kids, no kids?
jobs, no jobs?

curious.

Good question....I bolded my guesses. Young and delusional enough to spend big in the mindset that they'll "able able to pay that off in no time", yet without the drive or ability to do so....Gender thing could go either way, I guessed women because in my experience they tend to be more generous with money. Kids because kids are expensive, and people often use having children to justify buying newer/bigger vehicles. Jobs because you sorta need a job to get approved for the big loan in the first place.

[tooscoops]

credit apps solstice... that and what i do for a living is build a relationship, so i ask questions... every little thing they say tells me a bit more about themselves. if they are upside-down, they will be financing, so not only do we ask some of those things, we MUST ask them...

schooling part, that one is tougher... but i still find ways to find out things like that for a lot of them. usually talk about myself, and they offer their own history after.

anyway, it seems to be very widespread, but not many in the 60 and over category... the very upsidedown (multiple times they have done the trade-up thing) tend to be give or take 40... the 20-somethings are usually bad, but they are just in a new car they spent too much money on, so at least they can still ride out the loan with a reliable car that they loved not long ago...

the older ones have usually had their hands forced to get a car they don't really want because the numbers worked to get a payment they needed (think; 15k upside-down, so they get a base van with lots of rebate to hide as much negative equity as possible)... so they hate the car. the next time they want out, it is either impossible, or they get into something even worse (the two ways are a higher payment, or an even cheaper car, usually used with more flash, but something screwy like abnormal high kms, former accidents, etc)...

no real education difference... people with good jobs, bad jobs, high school education, doctors... everyone does it, they just do it for different reasons.

[5 Wheel Drive]

had a good'un...

old liberty was worth maybe 2-3k... no big deal. she said she still owed some money... a bit of a surprise, but couldn't be much... right?... she thought it over and said sadly... "i think i still owe close to 10"....

well, not great, but lets give em a call and find out! maybe we'll get lucky...


..... got the accurate number.... 19800 owing.

Holy crap! 

[craigq]

how is a salesman supposed to know whether I am a dropout?  Or I am an engineer?  When I buying the cars, I didn't take my kids with me.  And I certainly don't tell them what I do for a living.

Proudly wearing that pinky-ring   

[Triple Bob]

credit apps solstice... that and what i do for a living is build a relationship, so i ask questions... every little thing they say tells me a bit more about themselves. if they are upside-down, they will be financing, so not only do we ask some of those things, we MUST ask them...

schooling part, that one is tougher... but i still find ways to find out things like that for a lot of them. usually talk about myself, and they offer their own history after.

anyway, it seems to be very widespread, but not many in the 60 and over category... the very upsidedown (multiple times they have done the trade-up thing) tend to be give or take 40... the 20-somethings are usually bad, but they are just in a new car they spent too much money on, so at least they can still ride out the loan with a reliable car that they loved not long ago...

the older ones have usually had their hands forced to get a car they don't really want because the numbers worked to get a payment they needed (think; 15k upside-down, so they get a base van with lots of rebate to hide as much negative equity as possible)... so they hate the car. the next time they want out, it is either impossible, or they get into something even worse (the two ways are a higher payment, or an even cheaper car, usually used with more flash, but something screwy like abnormal high kms, former accidents, etc)...

no real education difference... people with good jobs, bad jobs, high school education, doctors... everyone does it, they just do it for different reasons.

I got a bit negative at one point, just because I love changing cars so much.  I was earning a good wage, no kids, drove the Z4 for a year and got bored with it.  Took some of the negative equity into the Exige.

[johngenx]

I got a bit negative at one point, just because I love changing cars so much.  I was earning a good wage, no kids, drove the Z4 for a year and got bored with it.  Took some of the negative equity into the Exige.

Sure, it happens to everyone that buys a car with financing and without a massive downpayment.  The reality is that new cars depreciate HARD and so most people begin their loan period upside down.  And it stays upside down for a while.

You also knew you were upside down, but were willing to take the hit to move into a different car.  I bet a LOT of people have no clue when they try to trade their two year old car in.  Why?  It's not "lack of education."  It's "lack of desire to know and take responsibility."

In Bob's case, he said, "yeah, I want out of of the BMW and into the Lotus and I'm financially capable of carrying the extra burden."  Most folks bury their heads int he sand and think "it will all be in the future so I don't care as long as I get what I want now."  Try to talk to them about being upside down the future ramifications?  They don't want to hear it.  Seriously.

When I worked in banking, we had way tighter lending rules than now, so we had to say no, and we did it a lot.  My loan officers usually didn't have time to sit with someone explaining it all, so I would take over while they went onto the next client.  I did my best to educate people as to why we said no, and how they could better position themselves credit wise in the future.  The majority of people didn't want to listen.  They had no intention of altering their behaviour.  They were just angry they didn't get the expensive car they wanted.  Their fault?  Nope.  Mine.

[tooscoops]

yep... but also my fault when they are upside-down... can't win.

very true with all that. there is some lack of education as well, but it's not that difficult of math. if there was even a slight desire to know what was going on, it's not hidden... it can be figured out pretty easily, so it can't all be blamed on the education.

have one that is interesting... he won't tell me what he owes, but it's more than the trade is worth... an srt jeep. he wants to get out of it, and into a summit model a year older to "free up some money for summer toys". this is all stuff in the 50k range... he would be basically getting a car with the same kms, a year older and a lower model, all to "free up" about 6k on the loan, but at a higher rate....

so his net "gain" would be about 1k at most after the interest cost... to drop a year and trim level..... and all this, so that he can spend more money on a "motorcycle or something"

these are the brilliant minds at work. and he got approved on a loan close to 100k just over a year or so ago, so it's not like he has no money or credit...

[Gurgie]

^yeah, not the sharpest tools in the shed is what I'm thinking!

Sent from my SM-G850W using Tapatalk

[revalations]

Sounds much like this fella I know who worked the oil patch.......This guy was a MWD tech (measurement while drilling) and is only 28.

Brand new mega cab cummins Ram with about $20k in lift, wheels, and accessories.  ~$100k total

Brand new 40ft fifth wheel holiday trailer worth $70K

Brand new 22ft boat, I'd guess $40k

TWO (his and hers) Polaris RZR side x side's, his was a tick over $30k with options, hers was $22K

Hasn't worked in over a year. Asks me if I could sell his truck in the states. Still owes $71,000 on a 2014. The other toys have all been repo'd. I have no idea if he still lives in the $650,000 house they bought.

Upside down. Level, Expert! 

[aquadorhj]

Sounds much like this fella I know who worked the oil patch.......This guy was a MWD tech (measurement while drilling) and is only 28.

Brand new mega cab cummins Ram with about $20k in lift, wheels, and accessories.  ~$100k total

Brand new 40ft fifth wheel holiday trailer worth $70K

Brand new 22ft boat, I'd guess $40k

TWO (his and hers) Polaris RZR side x side's, his was a tick over $30k with options, hers was $22K

Hasn't worked in over a year. Asks me if I could sell his truck in the states. Still owes $71,000 on a 2014. The other toys have all been repo'd. I have no idea if he still lives in the $650,000 house they bought.

Upside down. Level, Expert! 

Must have made great money during the boom though..

I cant even dream of buying 100k car...

[neil]

I see all types, of all educations, and a two minute phone conversation I pretty much know where everyone is at, financially, personally, those that are on it, those that aren't, i see big money guys who spend more than they make, and little money guys that have their together.   There are 'tells' that experience gives me and I'm right 95% of the time.

[dkaz]

Jim Prentice's "look in the mirror" comment was the right comment made in the wrong situation. The government can fully blame itself for squandering the heritage fund that should have been saved for less prosperous times. But it seems that the government's fiscal policies mirror that of a number of Albertans.

[tooscoops]

yeah, the rig mentality just assumes things will always continue the upward trend they have seen their whole short life... "i make three times what my buds back home make and they drive cars with 30k, i should drive one worth 90..." and so on... they forget their buddies work at the bank with a bit of security and benefits and will likely still be there (for better or worse) in 10 years... these guys will not only not be at the same place, but without any job and no benefits.

they invest in the now, rather than the future. as long as they are aware they are doing it, cool.. enjoy living the high life. if they think the cash flow is never ending, they will be in for a rude awakening...

i have a few friends in the patch (and similar) here and in the states... great guys, but just clueless as to how the rest of society functions.

but at least they have an excuse, being the "nouveau riche" of our generation... the people who make average money but still want to behave like upper crust are the ones who are more plentiful.

[tooscoops]

yesterdays....

came across from the kia dealership where their 2011 sonata was towed in... seized engine. over 200km on it, so they said don't bother fixing it (sad in itself that a 5 year old car isn't worth fixing)...

owed over 10 grand on a car worth scrap metal. we tried to sell them something, but the banks didn't want to touch it with the negative equity.

[Fobroader]

yesterdays....

came across from the kia dealership where their 2011 sonata was towed in... seized engine. over 200km on it, so they said don't bother fixing it (sad in itself that a 5 year old car isn't worth fixing)...

owed over 10 grand on a car worth scrap metal. we tried to sell them something, but the banks didn't want to touch it with the negative equity.

Owed over $10k on a 5 year old car with 200k km that was worth, what, $20-25k new?!?!? 

[Solstice2006]

yesterdays....

came across from the kia dealership where their 2011 sonata was towed in... seized engine. over 200km on it, so they said don't bother fixing it (sad in itself that a 5 year old car isn't worth fixing)...

owed over 10 grand on a car worth scrap metal. we tried to sell them something, but the banks didn't want to touch it with the negative equity.

Owed over $10k on a 5 year old car with 200k km that was worth, what, $20-25k new?!?!? 

Not that I agree with the owner, but even a base model automatic Sonata with tax is $30k with tax.