Author Topic: I know it's hard to be excited by a hybrid...but... (Read 10133 times)

rrocket · « **on:** March 08, 2016, 12:14:32 am »

...this is some pretty cool tech IMO. And it seems very compact for a hybrid drive system looking no larger than a conventional engine/tranny combo.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/two-trans-enter-one-trans-leaves-details-of-the-new-lexus-multi-stage-hybrid/

Video explaining the system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzxYM-GPTDU

Fobroader · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2016, 01:28:33 am »

Thats a great looking hybrid, tech aside

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

safristi · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2016, 06:27:44 am »

New Star Wars Robo GUN......

mmret · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2016, 10:35:46 pm »

Pretty cool. I wonder how compact that 4sp is.

No reason why this can't conceptually work in a traditional gas engined car too with a regular CVT replacing the power split thing, though I am not sure if CVTs can shift ratios as quickly as the power split device.

rrocket · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2016, 10:38:17 pm »

Quote from: mmret on March 08, 2016, 10:35:46 pm

Pretty cool. I wonder how compact that 4sp is.

No reason why this can't conceptually work in a traditional gas engined car too with a regular CVT replacing the power split thing, though I am not sure if CVTs can shift ratios as quickly as the power split device.

mmret...see that picture? The tail end IS the 4 speed!! That's the entire hybrid drive. Extremely compact.

rrocket · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2016, 10:41:23 pm »

Here it is opened up and up close. Give a better idea of what's inside.

EV Dan · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2016, 11:08:26 pm »

I have a mixed feeling about this. I am under impression that a PSD can handle a wide range or ratios, case in point being acceleration times (around 6 sec) and fuel efficiency of the porky RX 450h. Adding complexity and inefficiency (is there a torque converter?) of the autobox for the sake of "sportiness" and better sounding gear changes seems a questionable engineering choice. Just my 2 cents. $:-\$

rrocket · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2016, 11:33:36 pm »

Quote from: EV Dan on March 08, 2016, 11:08:26 pm

I have a mixed feeling about this. I am under impression that a PSD can handle a wide range or ratios, case in point being acceleration times (around 6 sec) and fuel efficiency of the porky RX 450h. Adding complexity and inefficiency (is there a torque converter?) of the autobox for the sake of "sportiness" and better sounding gear changes seems a questionable engineering choice. Just my 2 cents. $:-\$

It makes all the sense in the world...for a sports car. Sadly, CVTs mostly suck to drive in a sporting fashion. While they could have just left it as is, Lexus went the extra bit to ensure that the driving experience match the cars good looks. It's a good thing when manufacturers make a car more enjoyable to drive. And knowing Lexus, the fuel economy penalty should be negligible. I'm betting it's still around 30MPG combined or something.

mmret · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2016, 12:11:12 pm »

Yeah good question. Is there a torque converter? Doesn't seem to be from the pic. But don't autoboxes need a torque converter to effect gear changes, otherwise they need a clutch. At which point its basically a PSD + DSG (without the dual) kind of thing.

Maybe you just need a really tiny torque converter (effectively a liquid clutch) that is only briefly unlocked when the auto trans shifts. The PSD can handle the other functions traditionally associated with the torque converter.

wing · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2016, 12:18:58 pm »

I don't know how it works but in the RCF/ISF the torque converter is eliminated after 1st gear. Which removes the slush feeling and makes the gearbox feel directly connected.

So not sure they NEED it for gear changes, but it is needed in first gear to get going or it will stall.

mmret · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2016, 12:25:15 pm »

Is it entirely eliminated, or is it only fully locked while driving, and briefly unlocked or allowed to at least slip during the shift? That is my question.

rrocket · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2016, 05:07:19 pm »

Quote from: mmret on March 09, 2016, 12:25:15 pm

Is it entirely eliminated, or is it only fully locked while driving, and briefly unlocked or allowed to at least slip during the shift? That is my question.

After first, torque converter is locked.

bye · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2016, 07:02:07 pm »

Quote from: rrocket on March 08, 2016, 11:33:36 pm

Lexus went the extra bit to ensure that the driving experience match the cars good looks. It's a good thing when manufacturers make a car more enjoyable to drive.

To each their own. My feeling is that the noise, vibration and abruptness of shifting a transmission gets in the way of my enjoyment of driving, but that's me talking after tens of thousands km of quiet and fun electric vehicle driving.

One of my favourite cars was my 1991 Chevy Beretta GTZ with a getrag 5 speed mated to the QUAD4HO 190HP 2.3L engine with 7400RPM redline. Those were the days, the car sounded amazing, and the driving experience was thrilling on winding roads when the car was in second gear above 4800 RPM when the second set of cam lobes opened up fully.

Those days are gone, I have new memories now, and they include leaving Porsche Turbo SUV's ten car lengths behind in the first two seconds away from a light like I did yesterday (and he deliberately changed lanes to line up beside me at the light).

I get why sports cars need this tech, but don't for the life understand the amount of technology being thrown at the internal combustion engine and drive trains of SUV's and the like when the future is so clearly in electric motors and batteries.

tortoise · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2016, 07:03:27 pm »

Wait, your automotive zenith includes the Chevy Baretta?

All this tech is being added to meet emissions and economy standards while still providing the increase in power that the market demands.

mmret · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2016, 08:50:45 pm »

Quote from: Smart Electric on May 01, 2016, 07:02:07 pm

I get why sports cars need this tech, but don't for the life understand the amount of technology being thrown at the internal combustion engine and drive trains of SUV's and the like when the future is so clearly in electric motors and batteries.

You need to be more thankful for internal combustion.

Take it away and the world will cease to function.

This would include you being very likely unable to charge your precious battery powered fire hazard. At very least most of the power plant employees would be unable to get to work.

bye · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2016, 12:21:09 am »

Quote from: mmret on May 01, 2016, 08:50:45 pm

You need to be more thankful for internal combustion. Take it away and the world will cease to function

The vast majority of the electricity in Ontario is produced without combustion of any kind, but yes, we do have 7GW of combine cycle gas turbines that are backup power for the Nuclear plants. Last month, wind and solar provided almost as much energy to the grid than gas.
Ref:

Wind is now cheaper than any other form of new power production, and solar has dramatically dropped in price and continues to do so.

I'll be thankful when combustion is a far smaller portion of power production for vehicles, and that is something I am helping along by supporting companies like Tesla with my purchasing power/dollars.

bye · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2016, 11:21:40 pm »

Quote from: tortoise on May 01, 2016, 07:03:27 pm

Wait, your automotive zenith includes the Chevy Baretta?

I was in my early 20's when I got that car. It was my first performance vehicle, and for it's day, was a surprisingly fun and exciting car to drive. The Beretta GTZ with QUAD4 was the Honda S2000 of it's day if you will.

My car after that was a Camaro Z28 with the unlimited speed package, 6 speed manual. Easily capable of >150MPH.

Funny thing is, our Tesla family sedan is quicker (notice I didn't say faster) than anything else I have driven, including supercharged V8 cars and twin turbo V6 ricers. It's a totally different feeling to have that level of power instantly available, zero delay from mashing the accelerator to getting planted in the seat.

rrocket · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2016, 05:39:32 pm »

Quote from: Smart Electric on May 01, 2016, 07:02:07 pm

My feeling is that the noise, vibration and abruptness of shifting a transmission gets in the way of my enjoyment of driving,

None of those have ever been apparent in any Lexus I've had.

But I guess your benchmark was a Beretta.

johngenx · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2016, 05:54:42 pm »

Quote from: rrocket on May 03, 2016, 05:39:32 pm

But I guess your benchmark was a Beretta.

My "benchmark" of driving enjoyment right now is my old Miata. It's the epitome of "noise and vibration" though my skill with the DIY-transmission means no "abruptness."

One of my doctor friends moved from an LS600h to a Tesla. He loves being an EV pioneer, but he fully acknowledges that Tesla "isn't even in the same league" with Toyota in terms of build quality. But, like many Tesla owners, he's willing to overlook a lot of stuff for being one of the first kids on the block with a new toy. It's also part of a "fleet" so no concerns about downtime or travel/range anxiety, etc. He still has an RX450h.

blur911 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2016, 12:19:15 pm »

Quote from: Smart Electric on May 01, 2016, 07:02:07 pm

QUAD4HO 190HP 2.3L engine with 7400RPM redline. Those were the days, the car sounded amazing, and the driving experience was thrilling on winding roads when the car was in second gear above 4800 RPM when the second set of cam lobes opened up fully.

Tell me, how does this work?