Topic: Used Vehicle Review: Cadillac STS, 2005-2011

[Autos_Editor]

The STS is a lovely car and a strong performer, but suffers from a number of reliability troubles.

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[Gardiner Westbound]

Cadillac long enjoyed a unique and prestigious place in the auto industry. Called “The Standard of the World,” people spoke of other products as ‘The Cadillac of whatever.”  It's all gone, ruined by GM's relentless pursuit of mediocrity.

[northsparrow]

Once again Chris Chase has provided us with highly valuable  analysis of a poorly built car.

[nlm]

Cadillac long enjoyed a unique and prestigious place in the auto industry. Called “The Standard of the World,” people spoke of other products as ‘The Cadillac of whatever.”  It's all gone, ruined by GM's relentless pursuit of mediocrity.

Yes but the legacy is so strong even the Canyonero is referred to as the Cadillac of automobiles!

[lebowski]

Cadillac long enjoyed a unique and prestigious place in the auto industry. Called “The Standard of the World,” people spoke of other products as ‘The Cadillac of whatever.”  It's all gone, ruined by GM's relentless pursuit of mediocrity.

....and? Anyone who frequents these forums - and probably anyone who knows anything about cars - knows how far Cadillac's reputation has plummeted over the past 30+ years. Frankly, it's old news, and people have moved on - particularly the younger folks - that is, younger than the "traditional" cadillac buyer -  who have been snatching up the new CTS (and CTS-V).

[Solstice2006]

I found the Seville STS a real looker in the later 90's , and the Northstar sounded great.  The issue mentioned about the timing chain breaking on the V6 models, I wonder if that would apply to the 3.6L direct engine, that GM uses in many models....

Or is it just the specific timing chain they use in the Cadillac...

[aaronk]

In terms of cars is there such a thing as 'standard of the world' anymore? Our marketplace is so global, so competitive and so chalk full of options (unlike it was when Cadillac was the benchmark), is it even possible to be 'the best'? At one point the Mercedes-Benz S-class was also considered the best, and while it is still held in high regard, it could be debatable that it is 'the best'.

[Gardiner Westbound]

I found the Seville STS a real looker in the later 90's , and the Northstar sounded great.  The issue mentioned about the timing chain breaking on the V6 models, I wonder if that would apply to the 3.6L direct engine, that GM uses in many models....

Or is it just the specific timing chain they use in the Cadillac...

See GM TSB 10287 Premature Timing Chain Wear (attached).

Applicable to 2007 model year GMC Acadia; Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles equipped with a V6 engine, it instructs dealers to shorten the Oil Life Monitor change interval. Apparently dirty oil is killing the timing chains.

[Solstice2006]

This story represents everything that was and is still wrong with GM. The Cadillac product dopes fail to recognize what they have going for them and evolve it over time. The early STS had a good reputation as a quick even cool big sports sedan (several commercial pilots I know drove them). GM could have evolved the STS targeting the 5 Series making a large and slightly-too-angry muscle sedan (sort of like the CTS-V only upmarket). I think there was a time when the market would have supported a comeback for Cadillac. Today the brand is mostly the brunt of jokes and stories about failure.

Judging by the sales of the latest Cadillac I don't see that. I agree they are not the benchmark, but they have improved quite a bit over the last few years.  The CTS, and SRX are selling quite well.  The ATS and XTS (which will be built right here in Oshawa) look very promising.  The generation to generation turnover is looking better and better.  Same can't be said for some other companies, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus (quality may be there, but styling is quite bland)

As for the TSB, seems to be only the SUV cousins, and the Cadillac CTS and STS, does not mention Malibu, or Impala, or Camaro.

[Erik]

This story represents everything that was and is still wrong with GM. The Cadillac product dopes fail to recognize what they have going for them and evolve it over time. The early STS had a good reputation as a quick even cool big sports sedan (several commercial pilots I know drove them). GM could have evolved the STS targeting the 5 Series making a large and slightly-too-angry muscle sedan (sort of like the CTS-V only upmarket). I think there was a time when the market would have supported a comeback for Cadillac. Today the brand is mostly the brunt of jokes and stories about failure.

Sounds like what Hyundai and Kia were not too many years ago.

[aaronk]

This story represents everything that was and is still wrong with GM. The Cadillac product dopes fail to recognize what they have going for them and evolve it over time. The early STS had a good reputation as a quick even cool big sports sedan (several commercial pilots I know drove them). GM could have evolved the STS targeting the 5 Series making a large and slightly-too-angry muscle sedan (sort of like the CTS-V only upmarket). I think there was a time when the market would have supported a comeback for Cadillac. Today the brand is mostly the brunt of jokes and stories about failure.

Judging by the sales of the latest Cadillac I don't see that. I agree they are not the benchmark, but they have improved quite a bit over the last few years.  The CTS, and SRX are selling quite well.  The ATS and XTS (which will be built right here in Oshawa) look very promising.  The generation to generation turnover is looking better and better.  Same can't be said for some other companies, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus (quality may be there, but styling is quite bland)

As for the TSB, seems to be only the SUV cousins, and the Cadillac CTS and STS, does not mention Malibu, or Impala, or Camaro.

And don't forget about the massive success of the Escalade - it's basically its own brand. In Woodbridge these are as common as Civics. I still see lots of new CTS and Devilles as well.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think the Escalade is forgotten...who's buying new ones?

Well....

[lebowski]

ATS and XTS remain unknowns. XTS will be the grandpa Cadillac but should have been the next gen STS. I bet the ATS becomes a fancy Buick.

Which one is it? Are they "unknowns" or will they be the "Grandpa"/"fancy buick" Cadillacs?

With respect the above is lazy generalizing.

First off, anyone with any business sense would have told Cadillac to build the XTS as they did - a big old FWD barge to satisfy the Florida-bound retirees and - perhaps even more lucrative - livery markets, who would otherwise be without a big,  luxurious, value-laden american sedan. No, it won't be a sexy RWD car, but for Cadillac and GM to ignore these core, traditional, if admittedly shrinking markets - that of the "traditional" american luxury car buyer - would be flushing money down the toilet.

Second, the STS does have a replacement. It's called the CTS. Compare their dimensions and you might be surprised how close they are in size.

Third, if the ATS is a fancy Buick, I'd love to find out where this RWD Nurburgring-slaying Buick is. You must mean the LeSabre, right? Oh wait - maybe the Century?? My mom had one of those, and it definitely handled.

Finally, just to clarify I'm no GM fanboy - I've actually never even owned an American car. But I believe credit aught to be given where it's due: GM and Ford (and to a lesser extent, Chrysler) have made astonishing improvements in their product lines as of late, and they deserve more than lazy throw-away generalizations.

Rant off

[Mike]

I think the Escalade is forgotten...who's buying new ones?

Well....

I meant year over year sales.

No longer at its height, but steady

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Escalade

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think the Escalade is forgotten...who's buying new ones?

Well....

I meant year over year sales.

For the first time this year the Cadillac large luxury SUV family posted a year-over-year improvement, climbing 17% from 1676 sales last June. Sales of the regular wheelbase Escalade rose 22%. The stretched Escalade ESV was up 14%. Escalade EXT sales were level at 142.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/search/label/Large%20Luxury%20SUV%20Sales?max-results=5

For a vehicle that really hasn't been updated for some time, it's doing ok.

[aaronk]

In 2011 the only vehicle in its class to outsell the Escalade was the MB GL-Class. Cadillac moved over 15,000 of them in the U.S. So what is the future then, should Cadillac focus on SUV's? While the Escalade is still a strong seller how long can that last with its massive girth and thirst for fuel? I don't think they can command the top-level luxury market as people are too brand-conscious, they want an S-Class or a 7-series.

Cadillac has always touted technology as a strong point, perhaps that is their future. If they can keep abreast of technology people actually want in cars, that's their ticket. I think there are enough gloveboxes with coolers or heated steering wheels - I mean real technology, like wi-fi data linking with your tablet, cloud file storage or a 'smart windshield' similar to Googles' new glasses.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think the Escalade is forgotten...who's buying new ones?

Well....

I meant year over year sales.

No longer at its height, but steady

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Escalade

We may have different definitions for 'steady'. This is from your link above for US sales of the Escalade since peaking in 2006.

Calendar Year   Escalade

2006   39,017   
2007   36,654   
2008   23,947   
2009   16,873   
2010   16,118   
2011   15,079

Gee, I wonder what could have happened right around 2007-2008 that might have affected people's spending habits going forward?

[aaronk]

I think the Escalade is forgotten...who's buying new ones?

Well....

I meant year over year sales.

No longer at its height, but steady

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Escalade

We may have different definitions for 'steady'. This is from your link above for US sales of the Escalade since peaking in 2006.

Calendar Year   Escalade

2006   39,017   
2007   36,654   
2008   23,947   
2009   16,873   
2010   16,118   
2011   15,079

The segment is dying, not just the Escalade.

Mercedes-Benz GL:
2007    26,396
2008    23,328
2009    15,012
2010    19,943

Lincoln Navigator:
2006    23,947
2007    24,050
2008    14,836
2009    8,057
2010    8,245
2011    8,018

Keep in mind also that the Escalade received its last update in 2007 - sales have steadily declined since. The point is that it is hardly a 'forgotten' vehicle and it doubles the sales of its closest competitor. Also look at the increase in SRX sales. Cadillac SUV buyers are staying at Cadillac, they are just buying something more in tune with the economy and their wallets.

Cadillac SRX
2008    16,156
2009    20,237
2010    51,094
2011    56,905

[aaronk]

They don't make golf cart versions of your vehicle unless you've got a strong brand!

[Soram6275]

While I like this Caddie, I like the Lincoln Town Car better.  I think it's also more reliable.  1 Million Taxi drivers can't be wrong.